Onigiri's Sustainability - An Analysis of Playerbase Decline

[PoorBowman]

Whoa whoa, back up a little bit, what was that about chian magatama just now?

Remove or alter them? That thing is incredibly useful.
Do you seriously believe that chian magatama is one of the causes for onigiri playerbase to decline?

[Moriya Suwako]

Whoa whoa, back up a little bit, what was that about chian magatama just now?

Remove or alter them? That thing is incredibly useful.
Do you seriously believe that chian magatama is one of the causes for onigiri playerbase to decline?

You see, from a selfish point of view, that might not seem to be the case. It gives you great sustainability, and allows a lot of skills like Thunder beast to be used at a LOT less of a risk. However, from an analytic point of view, it's actually counter intuitive. If we're on the talk of onigiri playerbase decline, let me ask you something as a response to your question. Do you ever see any fully devoted support players at the full end of the game? By that, I don't mean your local player with a potent invigorate staff. I'm talking about those who actually max mind affinity, can heal constantly for values above low thousands, and actually deal damage with staff offensive skills? Essentially speaking, there is literally next to no support players in the entire population, and a large reason to that is due to chian magatama.

Chian essentially says to all support users "We don't need your heals, just become an SP b****h for us." I don't necassarily agree that Chian should be completely removed, but at the same time, I believe that the values need to be changed. Most players at end cap can well heal up to 6 times their original HP with just one skill, in which essentially allows them to facetank any big skill and not really care as long as it's not a full OHKO. What we sought it to be was something that can help them sustain their HP during risky skills, but not something that should be as luxurious as healing all of their HP back to full with a single hit.

If we're trying to address changes and problems to the game here, we can't only just take in one side, and completely ignore the other. Sure Chian is AMAZING for your DPS classes, but for those who actually love and want to support, it's the biggest turn off in the game. It makes them feel useless, and that eventually leads to a good amount of player decline simply because their designated roles are being taken over by a single item that renders them absolutely useless.

[Otonashi]

The biggest problem with sustainability is while old players leave for whatever reasons, the gap should be filled with new players. However, with the crash bug right outside the 1st rest area, there is no way for new players to even get past level 4. So they give up and move on to a different game. Basically, while bleeding old players and inability to attract new players, this game is doomed to die.

I joined near the end of August and got stuck at the infamous bugged spot. I waited patiently for a month for the event (which everyone said was the cause) to be changed to the next one, only to find the the bug remains. I'm not waiting around for another month for a another chance of a fix which isn't even guaranteed to work. Therefore, I am uninstalling Onigiri and looking elsewhere.

Post here regarding Kikaigahara crashes from now on. The crashes can't be stopped unless someone figures out how to reproduce them.

[AtmaMoogle]

HAHAHA, the amount of misdirected hate is funny as hell.

First of all, don't talk shit when you don't know jack. Taking advantage of people was a just rumor a certain group made up because they were ignored for down syndrome. Second of all, who the hell do you think is helping to contribute to the wikia. If anything, they helped maintaining the population so you can already shut the hell up since you used it.

Food for thought, try to turn on your brain the next time you start hating and believing someone spreading bullshit. HERR HERR I HEARD IT FROM SOMEONE ELSE IT MOST BE TRUE. Stop and think for yourselves for once, yeah?

Thanks to everyone who actually took the time to listen to the ideas. It actually does mean a lot.
v
Before I go off and completely derail. What do you guys think about the party system? I think we covered how leech exp to be changed, but I'm not sure. As of now, I don't see the point of actually partying unless you need to clear a dungeon for the first time, When it's more efficient to sit in an afk/leech party to grind then it is to have a bunch of people help is not a party imo. The main reason, I think, is because of lack of "leech" exp, when full exp goes over to the killer is pretty dumb. The exp imbalance completely kills the point of partying.

[Firon]

Whoa whoa, back up a little bit, what was that about chian magatama just now?

Remove or alter them? That thing is incredibly useful.
Do you seriously believe that chian magatama is one of the causes for onigiri playerbase to decline?

:o

You see, from a selfish point of view, that might not seem to be the case. It gives you great sustainability, and allows a lot of skills like Thunder beast to be used at a LOT less of a risk. However, from an analytic point of view, it's actually counter intuitive. If we're on the talk of onigiri playerbase decline, let me ask you something as a response to your question. Do you ever see any fully devoted support players at the full end of the game? By that, I don't mean your local player with a potent invigorate staff. I'm talking about those who actually max mind affinity, can heal constantly for values above low thousands, and actually deal damage with staff offensive skills? Essentially speaking, there is literally next to no support players in the entire population, and a large reason to that is due to chian magatama.

Chian essentially says to all support users "We don't need your heals, just become an SP b****h for us." I don't necassarily agree that Chian should be completely removed, but at the same time, I believe that the values need to be changed. Most players at end cap can well heal up to 6 times their original HP with just one skill, in which essentially allows them to facetank any big skill and not really care as long as it's not a full OHKO. What we sought it to be was something that can help them sustain their HP during risky skills, but not something that should be as luxurious as healing all of their HP back to full with a single hit.

If we're trying to address changes and problems to the game here, we can't only just take in one side, and completely ignore the other. Sure Chian is AMAZING for your DPS classes, but for those who actually love and want to support, it's the biggest turn off in the game. It makes them feel useless, and that eventually leads to a good amount of player decline simply because their designated roles are being taken over by a single item that renders them absolutely useless.

TBH, I think chian is fine as it is. I think most ppl don't create their builds so that they will be fine if they have support. Curing still has it's places (such as death cool down -.-). If you remove chian, well, just remember ppl quit when their popstar ran out. If you adjust the values, ppl will just go for more crit force or something. If chian became weaker, I think the only thing that would happen is that we'd have better players and ppl would go back to using hp pots XD. Is strike boost bad or something? You'd think that ppl would use strike boost instead of trying to cure so that chian would heal more.

Well, I guess it's just a matter of giving more ways for support to be useful. A cool down skill would be nice :) and would be good for both carries and support whereas weakening chian will just make runs slower for both -.-
I've never actually played full support so maybe some of my comments are misplaced -.-" but hopefully support has more of a role in edo.

-Unrelated to this but just want to point out to ppl making suggestions to make them so that the game is better, not easier or more like another game. At least I think that's what the intention was :/

[AtmaMoogle]

TBH, I think chian is fine as it is. I think most ppl don't create their builds so that they will be fine if they have support. Curing still has it's places (such as death cool down -.-). If you remove chian, well, just remember ppl quit when their popstar ran out. If you adjust the values, ppl will just go for more crit force or something. If chian became weaker, I think the only thing that would happen is that we'd have better players and ppl would go back to using hp pots XD. Is strike boost bad or something? You'd think that ppl would use strike boost instead of trying to cure so that chian would heal more.

Well, I guess it's just a matter of giving more ways for support to be useful. A cool down skill would be nice and would be good for both carries and support whereas weakening chian will just make runs slower for both -.-
I've never actually played full support so maybe some of my comments are misplaced -.-" but hopefully support has more of a role in edo.

-Unrelated to this but just want to point out to ppl making suggestions to make them so that the game is better, not easier or more like another game. At least I think that's what the intention was :/

I honestly don't think Supports can keep up with Chian anyway. The convenience of Chian heal is way apparent.
When I'm 5% in a middle of a mob, I find Chian healing me WAAAAAAAAY before any support could. Which brings us to the targeting system in this game. You have to switch to a staff (considering at this point in the game you already hybrided staff) change to Cure, cycle tab till you get to your target, then actually cast it. Where the person who needed the healing can just AoE around them (TSB, eternal thunder, Asura's spin) and straight up heal to full. Yes, Cure is undeniably a life saver, but Chian just does it 3x better, and When everyone uses a Chian there is no point in having a HEAL support.

Another thing with Chian, it lets you tank more damage than you couldn't because when you heal and take damage at the same time your heal can bring you back from 0 hp to 1k o 2k. Sure you can do that with cure, but the timing needed and the predictions needed is almost godlike.
>IE. Benkei in room 80 of juncture. I've tanked 18k hits from him with only 13k hp because at the same time I used Thunderbeast or CFBS. and crit a enough to regain back 10k hp. Broken as fuckkkkkkk,

[Bernkastel]

watched the whole thing(i just have too much time and cant sleep e.e)

i think there should also be new gear, with skill modifiers, for specific skills- like empty sky slash extra hits or larger AoE. A lot of skills would be better if you could just modify it in some way. add it in as an option for yoshitsune's smelting or something? I think this was basically what you said with the elemental imbue on skills, but just more variety. this way you can nerf weapons while giving them the option to be stronger with different skills than the current skillset

im fine with chian being altered, but dont remove it.

supports also need more attack skills than just holy pillar. just buffing people dont feel like supporting them, you want to be able to pick off stragglers or something. cant count how many times i died to a single random mob suddenly hitting me from a blindspot because i was killing something else.

im not too sure about how elements work, but make all of them have a certain bonus rather than just extra damage. Like rain/mountain elements seem to do nothing, poison/burn doesnt really do anything either rather than lag. like sure, you can stack them, but they dont do anything but stack dmg. for example, make pierce element actually "pierce" the enemies- no dmg reduction from maximum mob hit count or that shit, and go thru defense on a low% chance or something. impact element can lower defenses maybe? add some sort of special effect like ice/lightning does with the freeze and paralyze, and revamp the burn/poison statuses cuz they dont do shit

also, in regards to beginner exp issues. many people complain about not having SF mags, and i ask them if they did their subquests or not since most SF mags that dont come from grind come from subquest. usually they didnt. so i tell them to do them, but they never do. maybe give bigger exp reward as well for quests if ur gonna boost grinding exp rates, make them worth doing. 2 birds 1 stone, they get their SF and exp so they arent stuck later on cuz they do 0 dmg

for dungeons, i really do wonder about recycled mobs, since game is based off japanese folklore. I had a funny idea that they ran out of youkai to use as monster, but i doubt that. I dont really have any new ideas in regards to improving things on the dungeon side of things since you all listed things i could have thought of.

[Firon]

also, in regards to beginner exp issues. many people complain about not having SF mags, and i ask them if they did their subquests or not. usually they didnt. so i tell them to do them, but they never do. maybe give bigger exp reward as well for quests if ur gonna boost grinding exp rates, make them worth doing. 2 birds 1 stone, they get their SF and exp so they arent stuck later on cuz they do 0 dmg

Forgot about this one: balanced sf magatama drops/quest rewards

3 bow sf magatamas drop in kishinden hell (ranks 3,4,5) and I got 1 in 400 runs
Also, the first bow sf magatama available through a quest is melon magatama in echigo (when you can get hunter's anyway and bow starts getting weak -.-).

Well, this is just for bow, not too sure about other weapon types.

[Ryxa]

supports also need more attack skills than just holy pillar. just buffing people dont feel like supporting them, you want to be able to pick off stragglers or something. cant count how many times i died to a single random mob suddenly hitting me from a blindspot because i was killing something else.

Regarding this... we've done some theory crafting in the past and think that higher ranks of holy light can serve the same purpose as rapid shot/poison rapid shot (If not better).

im not too sure about how elements work, but make all of them have a certain bonus rather than just extra damage. Like rain/mountain elements seem to do nothing, poison/burn doesnt really do anything either rather than lag. like sure, you can stack them, but they dont do anything but stack dmg. for example, make pierce element actually "pierce" the enemies- no dmg reduction from maximum mob hit count or that shit, and go thru defense on a low% chance or something. impact element can lower defenses maybe? add some sort of special effect like ice/lightning does with the freeze and paralyze, and revamp the burn/poison statuses cuz they dont do shit

Mountain elements have a small chance to stun. Poison and Burn could do with more DoT on higher level weapons but they do do something. As for pierce/slash/impact, they are what they are.

also, in regards to beginner exp issues. many people complain about not having SF mags, and i ask them if they did their subquests or not since most SF mags that dont come from grind come from subquest. usually they didnt. so i tell them to do them, but they never do. maybe give bigger exp reward as well for quests if ur gonna boost grinding exp rates, make them worth doing. 2 birds 1 stone, they get their SF and exp so they arent stuck later on cuz they do 0 dmg

Early level players should be using affinity magatama anyways. It's a faster way to boost your damage until you're at least 1.5k or so affinity if not more.

That's my opinion on a few things here. I'd most specifically like to see the elemental system reworked out of all the things you've mentioned... there could be a few creative things that could be done with it.

[Lynneth]

The biggest problem with sustainability is while old players leave for whatever reasons, the gap should be filled with new players. However, with the crash bug right outside the 1st rest area, there is no way for new players to even get past level 4. So they give up and move on to a different game. Basically, while bleeding old players and inability to attract new players, this game is doomed to die.

I joined near the end of August and got stuck at the infamous bugged spot. I waited patiently for a month for the event (which everyone said was the cause) to be changed to the next one, only to find the the bug remains. I'm not waiting around for another month for a another chance of a fix which isn't even guaranteed to work. Therefore, I am uninstalling Onigiri and looking elsewhere.

I agree with this statement, where is the tech support when needed?

----

Need to rebalance staff/wand/bows skills. Wands are very dependant on skills to kill enemies, without any good skills, especially high level skills, wands are pretty useless.

----
Proof of Concept to rebalance weapons to Spears/Swords

My challenge to community :

- Please screencast a gameplay video that can beat godlike spear player like Rhythm or godlike sword/twinsword player like Sebastian in clearing dungeon time at Hell Difficulty with 5-man party, using either Staff, or Wand.
In higher level dungeon like : Secluded Forest, Grotto, Echigo Estate. ( you need to finish at least under 4 minutes @lv.80 ), at lv.90, you can finish at 3 mins, and at level 100 you can finish it at 2 mins using those weapons.

If you can finish this dungeon in lower time based on your level, or at least the same time with godlike spear/sword player, than my point is moot, if not, then my point is valid to rebalance wand/staff class.