[WIP]Mariah's Guide to becoming a Magical girl (or guy)

[Lynneth]

I really want some improvement on Mage's skills and mechanics and the XP mechanics work.

The way it is right now, it's not friendly to newbie/beginner at all. The skills SP cost are rather expensive, and the delay after cast and all the cooldown are long.

Just improve the damage or attack speed , or lower the damage and make the range the same as bow and aspd, and lower the delay after cast and cooldown.

Some mage skills become useless or don't get hit at all, especially on faster enemies, moving enemies or leaping enemies.

It's totally different story with higher levels, though, since the higher level get access to all the equips, magatamas (and what is the best magatama for mage? I don't see it -_-; )

Some good magatama for mage/wand user is apparently got an deduction in WIS ._. I wonder does the creator of this game hate magic?

While the counterpart, the magatamas for spears, swords, odachis and bows are correct, since they add +% skillforce and the stats it corresponds.

[Moriya Suwako]

I'm not really sure of the "hate" to be honest. Our class seems to be that of low attack, but high skill force (look at the skill force of Frost Glaive VII and tell me that's not ridiculous). If anything, the devs are absurdly sided towards spear, and that's why it feels like mages aren't as strong compared to them; however, we've actually got a lot better than what you would think compared to like.. per say, odachis and axes.


In terms of best magatama for mages, you're looking at a combination of Lord Enma, Lord Henjyo, and Magic Magatama. The rest fall rather pale in comparison or aren't as useful end game... at least until Rank VIII+ skills come out.

Lord Enma is probably the most cost effective one out there for most mage players. Simply invest a level or three into vit and you've got a really strong 52% skill force added to most of your skills, and since you can evolve most ougis to VI now, it also affects it very heavily. Magic Magatama is really useful for the wis/mind hybrid like you and me, but the somewhat high chakra consumption doesn't really let you use all 4 this cap.

But the real one in debate is Lord Henjyo. Losing 5 wisdom for a seemingly strong 60% skill force on only VII skills. I used to use this setup, but honestly, I found it to be very ineffective-hence why I switched over to Lord Enma/Magic Magatama. After calculation, if you plan on using four Lord Henjyo magatama, you'll lose a total of 20 wisdom. For us mages to maintain capped affinity, we need at least 113 wisdom total. Even if you do max wisdom with the correct character type, you'll still be short by approximately 1000ish (give or take 200) affinity, which results in a huge loss in damage for a good 240% skill force. Granted, you can make up for that kind of lack of affinity by adding ornamentations, but even then, capping affinity will be very hard. Instead of trying to ornament Lord Henjyo with wisdom to make up for the affinity loss, ornamenting Lord Enma with skill force is a much more safe and as effective option as the former. Not to mention, with Lord Enma, you have a larger SP pool than you would with Lord Henjyo because of the fact that Wisdom makes up a good amount of SP too- and since you've played mage enough, you should know how ridiculous our SP consumptions are.

[Rocksilver]

Makes you wonder if our class is the SUV on gas- I mean Sp Usage.

Edit: So not to double post.

I am too stubborn to die...for I have conquered Typhon at level 62!

I don't have his head on my wall, but the proof that I did do it is in this irritating little message from a certain Kiji at the end of Echigo Highway...telling me to burn in dev hell for reaching the end of the beta.

*sulks* I wanted to go to the hotsprings....

[Lynneth]

While Odachi and Axes has lower %skillforce, but their magatamas and setup/melee classes are far more superior. (They have 70%+skillforce)
This is added with weird targeting system, which has weird hitboxes, makes ranged non-targeting class become less useful.

@Moriya
To maximize your mage SP recovery, you WILL NEED all the LEVEL VII skills. Your build is a dream class mage (which will need lots of Onigiri Credits). So you're exempted.
I have already maxed affinity, and quite SP recovery to not even lacking any SP if casting lv.1,2,3 and some level.4 spells. To maximize damage you will need at least 3 wands with all lv.VII skills.

@Moriya
Frost Glaive VII has a serious drawback, you need SPACE to effectively use the spell and need time to cast. It's effective if the boss are not running around, or chasing you. Can you hit player in PVP with Frost Glaive VII directly? I doubt about that.
And the damage distribution is not even with the 3 glaciers of ice. The middle ice is the most damaging, while the side will only damage a little. You can compare it with Water Dragon Spear VII, it hits 100% evenly with all the water turbulent, whether in the middle or the side.

---
I don't recommend beginner/newcomer in this game using mage. Why?

1.Hard to use, even at endgame. While at endgame, you can switch role easily, since you can maximize 2 stats plus bonus. You can do much better using spear, sword and bows at endgame, rather than wand.
2.Useful skills begin at level 5, while lv.5 skills take a lot of SP, you will want directly to lv.7 skills, which hard to get, unless you have much money to burn.
3.Area of Effect Spells need time to cast, and need time for the damage to kick in. Other attack weapon's damage is instanious, and can stack it.
[ Mage = 1x spells = 2x other weapons 'spells' - pvp is not recommended ]
4.Spells' effect are cancelled when you get damage. For example, I cast Call of Lightning VI/VII, it has 3 bolts of lightning, if you're hit at the 1st bolt, your other bolts of lightning will be cancelled.
5.Small Area of Effect, fixed ground, even at lv.7,lv.5.
6.SP recovery is slow at lower level, good at middle level, and great at maximized affinity (enough wis).
7.Medium range normal attack, medium attack speed.
8.No DEFENSIVE Spells, or good ESCAPE spells, rendering mage vulnerable when casting, or when cooldown skills kick in.
9.Normal attacks are SINGLE target.
10.Cannot block incoming attack
11.No invulnerability frame when casting Ougis. This can determine you're dead or alive. And Casted Spells can be interrupted. Seriously
12.Ougis are 'stuck' at certain area, while other weapon's ougi can travel much faster, wider, and casted instaniously and more damaging, since wand base damage is low.
13.90% spells are interruptible, and need setup to cast. Melee class can do this (almost) instaniously, making spells are unwieldy since all enemies in endgame are fast type, or special boss type.

[Rocksilver]

Sometimes, I think you like demonizing a class that takes a bit of effort, Lyn.

There are many types of tactics and fighting, not everyone has to follow the mold, which unfortunately, makes up the mass of "classes" so far.

1. When you first started to learn a foreign language (if you have, if not, replace with something that took a bit of effort to learn), it was hard, wasn't it? However, with practice, it became easier and easier. It is exactly the same with wand, as with swords/spears/etc.

2. While Skills do mature at level 5, the point of being a mage is to slowly learn to let go of super high spells that drain your sp and start to discover due to your build, level four and below spells practically cost little to no SP. If you are nuking, then you learn to use staffs/throwaway wands to restore your sp or drink in critical times. The key components to spell casting is the wand skillforce and the WIS stat. Granted, money does give you the chance to earn level 7 skills, but for the most part there are plenty of people wanting to throw away useless magatamas in the store for quick cash.

3.Connecting to point one, practice is the critical point in using these skills. Experiment with range and time your opponents. Contrary to the general sense, AOE's don't and will never rely on the spell border range. Its there to give you a sense of where it will land, and you have to time the enemies' approach. Not being able to do it yourself is not cause to demean it as a stay away point.

4. Call of Lightning is not meant for normal pace and fast paced enemies. When you think about it, Its a slow spell meant for enemies in the middle of their own attacks, its a counter strike spell. If you were to use something like say Hellfire, you aren't going to use it after the enemies attack, would you?

5. Not sure how this relates to any other spell than defined small AOE"s like Call of Lightning. Many spells are very moderate to high range.

6. Any class starts this way, but we can accelerate the sp recovery process through alcohol and sp pots for emergency recovery, that is what they are there for. If you do not want to sacrifice a weapon to recharge, then that is a choice not to. Personally, any mage worth his or her salt will see that high dura, but unneeded staff/wands will be used some other way, if not for attacking, then for free recovery. The first point is vital for non magic users that rely on sp for their strikes, like spears and the like.

7. Again, we are not known to deal 1k dmg with our regular attacks, that is what our spells are for. The mage's attacks are meant to draw attention to himself or herself so that he or she can set up a killzone with AOE strikes. I have never heard of a mage that can take down a mob in hand to hand combat.

8. Mobility is THE best counter to any incoming attacks. A sense of awareness is also key. Running into one monster while escaping another is an example of not taking in your surroundings. When finished, run, run like the wind.

9. ANY normal attack is single target, Spears are not included because as spears, they can be thrust or swung, like a bat. Skills of either weapon can be treated as a single target getting the most damage with splash damage as a result, stuff like the magic spells already do, but from a safer distance.

10. Usually I like to dodge than block...but that is just me.

Also, I'm not sure why you are worrying about PVP when it isn't implemented yet. Even if implemented today, most mages would use Single target strikes like Flamestrike or Hellfire, which homes in on the target, Every other element can also do that, except for poison, which is primarily an AOE spell type.

Mages that want to hit hard, will at some point invest in the game. It is F2P with a cash shop, so you can have an edge over people, but it is unneeded to even glance at the cash shop. Most people can enjoy the game without touching the Nyankoropon or Boosters outside of what they are given from defeating the bosses.

11. Ougis are more flash, then they are effective. For Example, Dark Gate will do less damage to a grouped mob because it is dependent on the monster it targets, which unless marked, is the closest within the range. If you can find a better spell that uses less sp and can guarantee a hit zone, then use that instead of showing off. Showing off and expecting to live from a point blank strike is unrealistic. Use it when you can ensure that you'll live afterwards.

12. If I throw a spear with great force at someone, or shoot an arrow at something, it will keep travelling until it hits something, right? Same thing with Spells, except they have a limit to where they can go before detonating. The tradeoff with other weapons is that they need to get in close to use such a thing, while mages do not. I'm sure you've seen that many people often get hit or they need to scramble to get away from their targets should they live. Same thing with us.

13. This point seems to be a rehash of the previous points and felt that it was unnecessary to counter because its a jumbled mess of other points. I believe they are points 4, 11, 3 and 12. Also, I've seen enemies at Endgame, they are no faster than the rest, Typhon even less. He is extremely predictable and can be outmaneuvered if you study him a bit. I had more trouble from his stationary backup then I did him, so this point is moot. Odin, Hades and that one flower boss all have their tells when they'll do something, which is cue for you to run or do a dodge when they do an attack.

Your move.

[Lynneth]

Conclusion : Mage is not worth played for players who want to enjoy this game.
'
To enjoy this game, play other than Wand or Staff as main. As secondary, it's all right. Play spear weapon with maxed VIT firstly, the cheapest and most useful in any situation, whether first, middle or endgame. AOE normal attack, AOE Ougis, long range weapon, many useful support skills such as : Intimidate, Way of the Spears and Fierce God Focus.

Remember, the one who gets all the maxed EXP and luckyboxes in party are the one who kills all the enemies. Whether you kill it first or not will determine your leveling speed . That's why leeching business is successful, only in this game

But I will still play it since the time I have invested in this character must pay off first.

[Moriya Suwako]

@Moriya
To maximize your mage SP recovery, you WILL NEED all the LEVEL VII skills. Your build is a dream class mage (which will need lots of Onigiri Credits). So you're exempted.
I have already maxed affinity, and quite SP recovery to not even lacking any SP if casting lv.1,2,3 and some level.4 spells. To maximize damage you will need at least 3 wands with all lv.VII skills.

That's precisely why I don't recommend Henjyo. It only works if you have enough wands with rank VII skills, and that essentially exempts ougis. For the most part, at end/late game, you should always have all skills to at least rank V or higher either through ID or via Skill evolve (which is why Magic Magatama is so good). And essentially speaking, the minimum you need is just two wands, assuming that they're ranked with really strong skills. That's about it, and you can easily carry grind dungeons as long as you have the right magatamas.

@Moriya
Frost Glaive VII has a serious drawback, you need SPACE to effectively use the spell and need time to cast. It's effective if the boss are not running around, or chasing you. Can you hit player in PVP with Frost Glaive VII directly? I doubt about that.
And the damage distribution is not even with the 3 glaciers of ice. The middle ice is the most damaging, while the side will only damage a little. You can compare it with Water Dragon Spear VII, it hits 100% evenly with all the water turbulent, whether in the middle or the side.

Uhh, what? Why are you even talking about PVP here..
First off, we don't even have PVP in this game. We're not going to have PVP in this game either. The skill system isn't meant for such, and the fact that it's a 3D action-based MMO makes it even worse for it to even be a PVP based game. Look at TERA or Dragon Nest PVP; it's considered horrible for a reason, and a lot of it is because there are too many factors in a 3D world that allow a kind of PVP that rewards skill over class/job. Only games that have a 2D system really can have a "competitive" PVP scene, and this game is even moreso less with the type of action system it has. I don't get why you're talking about PVP here.

Getting back to the point however, frost glaive isn't an easy to land skill. It's not click and forget, and you certainly need quite a bit of aim with it, but you're forgetting a good few things. In order to truly use Frost Glaive/Ice bolt correctly, you NEED a skill that can stagger the monster enough to give you space for the skill. If you've ever seen my carries, Earth Glaive and Call Lightning-or any close ranged multi-hit skill like poison cloud- are essentially a MUST when it comes to landing frost glaives. They stun the mobs long enough so that you can create space and hit the frost glaives. Add an ougi and your combo is essentially perfect. To answer your question, yes I CAN land Frost Glaives effectively and not miss most of the time. Throwing any skill out like that won't work. You gotta understand that for skills with setup, you need to lead it up from another skill if you can't create the distance needed to use the skill.

Secondly, the way that Frost Glaive works is that it hits 3 times per spike, meaning that at level VI or VII, you can hit up to 9 times DEPENDING on the placement of the mob. The middle ice is the most damage because of the fact that all three sets of spikes will hit, resulting in at LEAST 5 hits or more. Against a Toudaiki sized mob from Echigo Estate, if you hit the "sweet spot" or exactly in the middle of the glaives, you can actually hit it 7 times (as it does miss the outer spikes but hits all the ones inside). If you're comparing it with Water Dragon here, Frost glaive's hitbox is about TWICE as wide as WDS. Comparing those two is like comparing apples to oranges. Plus, the devs love spear users anyways; you should already know that they'll probably end up on the top of the tier no matter what you do.

[Lynneth]

@Moriya

Can you show me how it's done? I'll be waiting at the entrance of Echigo Estate today if possible .

And where do you get Magic Magatama from? At least the ingredients for making it?
So what's your arsenal wands for carrying actually? Do you need SP invigorate or not?
Hmm.. what is your best time clearing Echigo Estate at Hell difficulty?

[amporu]

Any thoughts on chian mags? is it worth getting for grinding or even carrying pt with your wand type? and how many chian would you actually need? thanks.

[Rocksilver]

Conclusion : Mage is not worth played for players who want to enjoy this game.
'
To enjoy this game, play other than Wand or Staff as main. As secondary, it's all right. Play spear weapon with maxed VIT firstly, the cheapest and most useful in any situation, whether first, middle or endgame. AOE normal attack, AOE Ougis, long range weapon, many useful support skills such as : Intimidate, Way of the Spears and Fierce God Focus.

Remember, the one who gets all the maxed EXP and luckyboxes in party are the one who kills all the enemies. Whether you kill it first or not will determine your leveling speed . That's why leeching business is successful, only in this game

But I will still play it since the time I have invested in this character must pay off first.

If that is what you concluded, I won't be able to change your mind. Mages are not a carried class and Spears are too overrated to even claim to be the go to class. They have as much disadvantage as we do, just in different ways.

Besides, I've seen a spear user ask for help/talk out loud that the endgame is too hard for spears. If it was so versatile, it wouldn't be such a impossible challenge? Granted, the player controlling the spear user is a factor, but it makes me think that spears are finally buckling from a boss that doesn't die in three swings.

Personally, I think leechers are scum, with little to no drive, regardless of weapons used.

I enjoy this game as a wand user, and I don't even come close to the hardships that you've been describing...I'm either special or you aren't that committed to learning a relatively easy curved class.