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[Guide] Spear Overview

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[Guide] Spear Overview

Postby Blanc » 27 Jun 2014, 06:29

My knowledge is not omnipotent, so opinions and better suggestions are more than welcome.

Changelog:
10/7/14 - Changed aesthetics for skill comparison. Added section 10, Increasing Your Damage.

Content Page
0. Changelog [000]
1. Why Spears? [001]
2. Why Not Spears? [002]
3. On Stats and Affinity [003]
4. When to add your 2nd stat? [004]
5. What about a 3rd stat? [005]
6. How to use a spear? [006]
7. Skills [007]
8. On guarding and tumbling. When to use them? [008]
9. Magatama [009]
10. Increasing Your Damage [010]

Press CTRL-F and search for the number corresponding to the section you are want to view.

Why Spears? [001]
The spear has a large melee range, and good mobbing capabilities. One of the things you can do with a spear that you can't with other melee weapons is to gather a large group of monsters, cast a skill, and not die horribly from the attacks of the mobs trailing behind that you didn't kill. The large range you have lets you hit monsters in front, while staying out of the attacks of the monsters not hit by your skill. It also boasts one of the best solo capabilities with the inherent tankiness that stacking vit gives, together with the ability to hit monsters from afar. Plus, Spears are pretty cool, don't you agree?

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*Pictures taken from the Onigiri japanese wiki*


Why Not Spears? [002]
It could be that you find other weapons cooler. Most of the skills deal rather mediocre damage as well. There are of course, powerful skills that make using a spear completely worthwhile WaterDragonSpear, but first, you have to get your hands on them.
I do not have much experience with other weapons, but one of the problems I've had with spears was how little damage I deal. Compared to almost everyone else in the same level range, you are seldom able to OHKO monsters.

Also, spears are actually a pretty common weapon of choice as far as I can see, so if you were looking for uniqueness, you'd be better of using a staff.

On stats and affinity [003]

Max stat is 100. Max affinity is 3000. However, when your stat is at 100, your affinity will only be around 1664. You can make up for this in different ways. Maxing POW next would give you another extra 405 affinity for weapons not a wand and a staff. This is not recommended, however. You can also cap your affinity through affinity magatama, but you would want to swap them out for skill force magatama later. The best way to cap affinity is to get addition stat values from items to go above the 100 stat cap.

Stat-wise you should add everything to VIT initially. There will come a point where further stats in VIT will end up inefficient for its damage:cost ratio. At this point of time, you can choose to add a secondary stat, or continue pumping into VIT. If you choose to add a secondary stat, you have a choice between the other stats.

    POW:
    This stat is not recommended to add. It gives you additional attack speed and a little more affinity for every 10 levels it rises. It also give a little bit of hp. There are some spear magatama that require a certain amount of POW for its effects to take place. However, there are better spear magatama out there that do not require POW to for it to have an effect on you.

    WIS:
    Provides additional SP and SP recovery rate. Also grants 1 crit every 24 levels. It is not recommended to add skill points into this stat.

    MND:
    Grants more SP, and a little less SP recovery per point. Also gives a little pdef and substantial mdef. You may want to add some skill points into this stat.

    DEX:
    This is where you throw most of your skill points into. It increases crit every 12 points, and decreases the cooldown of your skills every 10 points. Best stat to add if you want more damage, as your crit rate and crit damage will increase.

In the end, you would still want to max your VIT. Whether you choose to do it early or later doesn't change much.

When to add your 2nd stat? [004]
There will come a time when adding your main stat becomes a tee bit inefficient.
http://onigiri.wikia.com/wiki/Stats

Referring to the "Status Points required to increase stat" table on the Onigiri wiki, you can see that at certain levels, the number of stat points needed to increase your main stat grows at a stupidly high rate. Around stat level 70-74-ish, the number of stat points needed to increase your VIT goes up by one after 4 levels. However, after that the stat point needed increases by one every 3 levels, and that quickly becomes 2 levels. At this point it starts to become inefficient to continue adding your main stat. This is where you start to consider adding a secondary stat. Exactly what point you start to do so depends on your own decision, but make sure you stop at the point where the stat point needed goes up by one for maximum efficiency. A checkpoint, so to say.

However, as a spear user, your main stat is VIT, and unlike a lot of other stats, VIT is always welcome, so feel free to add VIT until it is maxed out before you start adding a secondary stat.

What about a 3rd stat? [005]
If you feel that your 2nd stat is at a sufficient level, you can add a 3rd stat. Same situation as a 2nd stat applies to the 3rd stat. Make sure you stop adding your 2nd stat at a checkpoint.

How to use a spear? [006]
Hit and run. The tried and true tactic of all melee weapons. Except, you'd be running. A lot. Thank goodness for your long reach. Your melee attack is a 180 degree frontal sweep with a 3.7m range, and a decent knockback capability. I recommend carrying SP restoring sushi with you and being generous with their usage. That extra dps from repeated usage of your skills is extremely valuable. Try your best to get Water Dragon Spear IV+ on your spear. I swear, that skill is so broken.

With the large reach and aoe a spear offers, a common tactic when grinding is to gather all the mobs, then nuke them down with Water Dragon Spear, or any other useful skill you may have. On hard maps, you'd like to be able to "snipe" the monsters one by one with your long reach.


Skills: [007]
What skills should you aim for on your weapon? A low damage weapon with good skills often outclasses stronger weapons with bad skills. Skills are will be rated according to their usefulness.

I've been given permission by Otonashi/Siennan to use the skill rating system he applied in his guide.

Image Damage (More = More Damage)
Image Cooldown (More = Lower Cooldown)
Image Area of Effect [AoE] (More = Larger Area)
Image Range (More = Further Range)
Image Cast Time (More = Shorter Cast Time)
Image Overall Viability (More = Better)


Wind Thrust:
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Fires a spear of wind. This skill can be cast from 7m away. It also has a very short cooldown and a low mana cost. The damage it does is low compared to a lot of other skills on other weapons, but when compared to another spear-skill, it has one of the best damage to mana cost and cooldown ratio. This skill is also easy to find on any spear you identify. However, unlike most other skills, you cannot cancel it mid-skill, meaning that it is dangerous to cast it at any range not the maximum range.

Poison Fang:
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Stabs a poison coated spear in front of you. Has a hit range of around 6m. Fairly low mana cost, but the cooldown time leaves much to be desired. The damage it does is about the same as Wind Thrust, so this skill works as an alternative to Wind Thrust if you cannot get your hands on it. Still a pretty bad skill overall. Gets extra stabs at higher ranks.

Charge Spike:
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Forcefully thrusts your spear forward to pierce enemies. Has a very short cast time, and you can roll away almost immediately after the attack hits without any reduction to the damage dealt. Also has a pretty low mana cost and a cooldown time that is about twice as long as Wind Thrust. Deals similar damage to Wind Thrust and has strong knockback capabilities. Gains a second stab at rank III, doubling the cast time, but due to the knockback chance, it doesn't really matter.

Shadowed Strike: [
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Rapidly thrusts your spear forward repeatedly, ending in a powerful thrust that has a high knockback rate. Despite having to stand on one spot for a long time, you are able to cancel the skill anytime mid animation. Deals a sizable amount of damage for an acceptable mana cost. Has a range of around 6m, so using it at maximum range makes using the skill not as dangerous as it sounds.

Lunge Step:
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Leap forward into a horizontal slash. This skill has a large range. You can kite foes easily with this skill by standing more than 10m away from them. This skill gets a 2nd slash at rank IV and a third slash at rank V. Using this skill puts you directly in front of the enemy, but you can roll or guard immediately, so the danger isn't much. The damage is a bit low for the mana it uses, but overall it is a very solid skill.

Double-edged Cut:
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Stabs your spear forward. Has a lot of damage potential, but it requires the user to be low on health. Becomes a solid skil if you are someone who likes running around on low health. However, the short range of this skill ~5m, makes it dangerous for the user, especially when low.

Collapsing Blade:
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A powerful horizontal swipe that eats your spear's durability for dinner. Extremely powerful, and can even be kept on a second weapon for use only during bosses. Why is it a 4/5? Because the damage is does is extremely high.

Water Dragon Spear:
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Yes. This skill is just that good at Rank IV and above.
Fires a long water spear forward. Hits enemies from over 11m away with this skill. Deals a lot of damage. The mana cost is also very high. Gets a 2nd spear at rank IV and a 3rd spear at rank VI. At those ranks, it becomes an extremely powerful mobbing skill. You can run around the entire room gathering mobs, then wipe them all out with a single Water Dragon Spear.

Ice Blossom:
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A powerful ice slash with a slow start up. Very high damage. Very high SP cost. Long cast time with a limited attack range of about your normal attack range makes it a high risk, high reward skill. Thank goodness you can cancel it mid animation with by rolling or guarding. Oops. You just wasted a lot of SP. Gets a 2nd slash at rank V. Becomes an even more dangerous skill as it requires you to hit twice for the full damage to be dealt.

Rolling Thunder:
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Stabs the butt of your spear into the ground, releasing small area of effect lightning blasts. It's a very dangerous skill. If you can pull it off, you can dish out a whole lot of pain. However, the extremely close range you have to be in is usually quite dangerous, especially when bossing. Usually you will not be able to roll away in time.

Rufei wrote:It gets a hit per rank if you hold it for no MP cost (Blanc's thoughts: A current bug causes the skill to drain mana anyway), with each successive pulse being just slightly more range. There is something like a 5% chance of stunning the enemy on hit with this ability. It does not change the speed of the pulses, so it grows linearly in terms of skill duration given skill rank.

It is a highly effective ability if the enemy is stunnable. This means that you have to have the enemy in chase/neutral when the hit comes out. As such, this ability is highly dependent on perfect placement and awareness of enemy attack patterns. Attack too soon and you won't hit, while attacking too late will cause enemies to go into their animations (which gives them certain amounts of superarmor). If you are supremely confident about your damage, then you can go ahead and do it anyways and hope that the enemies die in the first hit (in which case you are more or less relying on quick damage calculations). Of course, be wary of your position after the attack - if your enemy doesn't die, then you may have placed yourself in the middle of a lot of enemies with no way out. Whoops!

As a note Rolling Thunder is a highly adapative skill. You can roll out of it at any point and guarding at any point during the attack cancels on the following frame, so if you have an enemy with a very predictable attack pattern you can maximize the number of frames you're attacking with and defend on demand. If you get good at this, you can reap the benefits from Just Guard (which has a different sound when the attack hits your guard, though I'm not sure what the benefits actually are). Great way to train and keep aggro.
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Devastation Slash:
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A very sped up version of your normal attack, done with a badass red aura around your weapon. High damage for a decent mana cost. Gets three slashes at ranks III and IV, four at rank V and VI, and five at rank VII. Looks very cool as well.

Thunder Crack:
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Thrusts a spear coated in lightning at the enemy. It looks underwhelming for a skill rated 4/5, but simple can be good as well. Despite the crappy range of ~5m, it actually does a lot of damage. It has a decent cast time, so it's actually quite a useful skill to have on hand.

Intimidate:
It provides an AOE slow. It should be placed on a secondary weapon, as it is not worth the wasted skill slot when placed on your main weapon.

Taunt:
Taunts monsters in an AOE around you. Almost useless against ordinary mobs, situational against bosses. Should be placed on a secondary weapon.

Way of the Spear:
Temporarily increases your affinity. Troublesome to keep recasting, but it increases your damage output by a substantial amount. Should be placed on a secondary weapon.


On guarding and tumbling. When to use them? [008]
Guarding is getting hit while taking negligible damage. Tumbling is getting the hell away before you take damage. So which should you rely on?
It's actually personal preference, though some bosses are capable of hitting you from behind, so do watch your back.

Magatama [009]
Though this is true for all weapons, I'd still put it here. Skill force magatamas give more overall damage compared to affinity magatamas of the same %. Prioritize those. You also would want high mdef magatamas, as your pdef is also sufficiently high. Attack magatamas are more than welcome as well, since you have less attack than most other weapons. If your main attacking skill is an elemental one like Ice Blossom or Water Dragon Spear, feel free to use elemental magatamas too. In short, its basically what you need at that point of time.

Increasing Your Damage [010]
Sources of damage that actually matter for Spear users:
    --Flat Damage
    --Affinity
    --Skill Force
    --Pierce, Slice, Elemental

Flat Damage
This is the damage that comes from your weapon, and other +XXX damage magatama. If you have no idea how this can increase your damage I suggest you stop reading this guide and start reading a dictionary.

Affinity
This is the "damage" that comes from your stats, and other affinity% matagama. The Attack you see on your status screen reflects the flat damage from your weapon and magatama added to your affinity. Affinity% magatama directly affects your affinity.

Skill Force
This is a multiplier for your skill's damage. It stacks multiplicatively on top of all your other attack buffs, so it is one of the best methods of increasing your damage. You get skill force mainly from Magatama. One of the best Magatama to have is the Literature Magatama, which offers a 90% increase in skill force for ALL spear skills.

Elemental
If you have no idea what this is before reading this guide, now you do.

Elemental affects your attacks just like how Skill Force does. The first thing to note is that most, if not all non-staff and wand skills have an "Element". Did you know that Pierce, Slice, and Impact are considered elements? How do you tell what element your skill contains? It's actually pretty easy to tell visually. If it slashs, it has slice. If it is like a thrust, it probably has pierce. Not enough testing has been done on spear skills to verify this, but so far, this is how it appears.

Another thing to note is that a skill can have more than one element, each composing a certain percent of the skill. For example, Ice Blossom Spear has both Slice and Ice. Having Slash +17 will not increase the skill's total damage by 17%, but rather, it will increase it by 17% multiplied by the percent of the element the skill consists of. Skill Force is better than Elements in this regard as they increase the total damage of the skill unconditionally.



Now I'm not the most knowledgeable person around, and I'm sure many of you have better knowledge in some areas. So do give your opinions to help improve this guide. Don't eat me.

Proofread by Lifariz
Credits to Rufei and SupremeTentacle for extra information and clarification.
Kudos to Otonashi for lots of information on the general Onigir mechanics.
Last edited by Blanc on 10 Jul 2014, 02:51, edited 13 times in total.
Dummy's Guide to a Spear here.
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Re: [Guide] Spear Overview

Postby Rufei » 27 Jun 2014, 08:10

Blanc wrote:Rolling Thunder:
Kamikaze skill. High damage. Gets a 2nd hit at rank VII. Need more opinions on this skill, to be honest.

It gets a hit per rank if you hold it for no MP cost, with each successive pulse being just slightly more range. There is something like a 5% chance of stunning the enemy on hit with this ability. It does not change the speed of the pulses, so it grows linearly in terms of skill duration given skill rank.

It is a highly effective ability if the enemy is stunnable. This means that you have to have the enemy in chase/neutral when the hit comes out. As such, this ability is highly dependent on perfect placement and awareness of enemy attack patterns. Attack too soon and you won't hit, while attacking too late will cause enemies to go into their animations (which gives them certain amounts of superarmor). If you are supremely confident about your damage, then you can go ahead and do it anyways and hope that the enemies die in the first hit (in which case you are more or less relying on quick damage calculations). Of course, be wary of your position after the attack - if your enemy doesn't die, then you may have placed yourself in the middle of a lot of enemies with no way out. Whoops!

As a note Rolling Thunder is a highly adapative skill. You can roll out of it at any point and guarding at any point during the attack cancels on the following frame, so if you have an enemy with a very predictable attack pattern you can maximize the number of frames you're attacking with and defend on demand. If you get good at this, you can reap the benefits from Just Guard (which has a different sound when the attack hits your guard, though I'm not sure what the benefits actually are). Great way to train and keep aggro.

Blanc wrote:Odin
Don't get hit by any of his attacks. The time frame you have after he uses an attack is only enough to use one skill, so don't be greedy. Run circles around the edge of the map to avoid the balls from the crystals.

Actually, he's easy to deal with if you realize that guarding always orients in the direction your camera is pointed when you first enter guard. Odin will spam a lot of moves, but there's one that sends him behind you. In that time, whip your camera around and re-establish guard. You should ultimately take very little damage from him, and guard keeps Odin within range of your spear, letting you get a bit more damage off of him. The danger with this tactic is that orbs fucking suck, but if you have eyes in the back of your head you can just dodge those like you're playing Nier or Touhou. Remember that the first pattern is a fan pattern, while the second pattern is always a guided pattern.

Other than that Odin is straightforward. In a team situation, he's even easier - just grab aggro, let him wail on you into a wall, and he can never get behind you (and thus your guard will never break). Get a healer to keep your HP from edging too far down (from all that chip damage) and when he aggros onto anyone else in the party, just re-establish aggro, preferably with Lunge Step or Water Dragon Spear.

But yes, don't let him hit you with any of his attacks. Generally speaking you can survive a single hit, but anything more is probably death. This also creates a situation where the healer then needs to attend to your sliver of HP, which means that no one else can screw up their dodges.
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Re: [Guide] Spear Overview

Postby Blanc » 27 Jun 2014, 08:23

Thanks for the extra info. Will add it to the guide. Have not managed to get my hands on Rolling Thunder yet. The JP wiki has three Lightning based skill and none of them translates to Rolling Thunder.
Just checking, but Rolling Thunder isn't the skill where you stab the butt of your spear into the ground and it lets out electric pulses around you, right?

Also, I really dislike rely on guarding. It tends to break randomly for no apparent reason and I haven't figured out why. No, it's not because I'm blocking from the wrong direction.
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Re: [Guide] Spear Overview

Postby Motoharu » 27 Jun 2014, 18:22

Hi , thanks for the guide .
I have a question , should i put all point to VIT , or 1 POW and 3 VIT ? :o
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Re: [Guide] Spear Overview

Postby SupremeTentacle » 27 Jun 2014, 18:36

@ Motoharu

Don't put power. Power is bad.

@ Original guide poster

I suggest adding multiple lunges to the skill section. Personally, as a fellow spear user, I feel that its one of the strongest skills that you can get, if you can get the rank V version of the skill.

Intimidate should also be added to the skill list, because its godlike team utility - but again, this is just my opinion.

Wind spear is also 8m, and WDS is 11 or 12 <3
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Re: [Guide] Spear Overview

Postby Blanc » 27 Jun 2014, 19:50

Motoharu wrote:I have a question , should i put all point to VIT , or 1 POW and 3 VIT ?

Look up the guide again. I'll edit it and add in a section all about stat points.


SupremeTentacle wrote:Intimidate should also be added to the skill list, because its godlike team utility - but again, this is just my opinion.

Intimidate in solo play is redundant as you have Moon King Liquor. But I'll add it for party play.

SupremeTentacle wrote:Wind spear is also 8m, and WDS is 11 or 12

For Wind Thrust, wiki says you can cast and hit from over 9.5m away, so probably a higher ranked thing. Need confirmation from other people.
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Re: [Guide] Spear Overview

Postby Rufei » 27 Jun 2014, 23:30

Blanc wrote:Just checking, but Rolling Thunder isn't the skill where you stab the butt of your spear into the ground and it lets out electric pulses around you, right?

Also, I really dislike rely on guarding. It tends to break randomly for no apparent reason and I haven't figured out why. No, it's not because I'm blocking from the wrong direction.

Yes. And I've never had it break, so I can't comment, though I've taken full damage before (because the enemy hits me from the back).
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Re: [Guide] Spear Overview

Postby Motoharu » 02 Jul 2014, 03:08

Blanc wrote:
Motoharu wrote:I have a question , should i put all point to VIT , or 1 POW and 3 VIT ?

Look up the guide again. I'll edit it and add in a section all about stat points.


SupremeTentacle wrote:Intimidate should also be added to the skill list, because its godlike team utility - but again, this is just my opinion.

Intimidate in solo play is redundant as you have Moon King Liquor. But I'll add it for party play.

SupremeTentacle wrote:Wind spear is also 8m, and WDS is 11 or 12

For Wind Thrust, wiki says you can cast and hit from over 9.5m away, so probably a higher ranked thing. Need confirmation from other people.


Many thanks ,
As your guide , I think MIND is a very good option for secondary stat ( in my opinion ) : more Pdef, Mdef, Dmg and more MP for skill spam .
But when I can put point in a secondary stat ? I mean each time lvl up we can only give point 1 time on a stat , for Spearman aim for VIT and a secondary stat ( mine is MIND ) ....So 5 lvl for VIT and 1 lvl for MIND ?
Is 3rd Stat is a good option ?
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Re: [Guide] Spear Overview

Postby Lifariz » 02 Jul 2014, 04:22

Motoharu wrote:
Blanc wrote:
Motoharu wrote:I have a question , should i put all point to VIT , or 1 POW and 3 VIT ?

Look up the guide again. I'll edit it and add in a section all about stat points.


SupremeTentacle wrote:Intimidate should also be added to the skill list, because its godlike team utility - but again, this is just my opinion.

Intimidate in solo play is redundant as you have Moon King Liquor. But I'll add it for party play.

SupremeTentacle wrote:Wind spear is also 8m, and WDS is 11 or 12

For Wind Thrust, wiki says you can cast and hit from over 9.5m away, so probably a higher ranked thing. Need confirmation from other people.


Many thanks ,
As your guide , I think MIND is a very good option for secondary stat ( in my opinion ) : more Pdef, Mdef, Dmg and more MP for skill spam .
But when I can put point in a secondary stat ? I mean each time lvl up we can only give point 1 time on a stat , for Spearman aim for VIT and a secondary stat ( mine is MIND ) ....So 5 lvl for VIT and 1 lvl for MIND ?
Is 3rd Stat is a good option ?


Affinity caps at 3k. If you're aiming for pure stat effects on that 3k, then you must go pure stat(for purposes of using skill force mags). But if you plan to supplement that 3k cap with affinity mags, then you can reach up to a certain stat range then equip the affinity mag. That way you have spare stat points for a secondary. It's up to you whether you want to go full dmg or not. But also, take note that certain titles have insane affinity addition. In short, reserve that stat reset when you get to lvl105.
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Re: [Guide] Spear Overview

Postby Blanc » 02 Jul 2014, 04:29

Motoharu wrote:As your guide , I think MIND is a very good option for secondary stat ( in my opinion )


Yes, yes it is. You could use a staff as a secondary weapon and play part time support too.

Motoharu wrote:More damage


If you mean, by having more mana regen to throw more skills at the enemy, then yes. Mnd does not give you spear affinity.

Motoharu wrote:But when I can put point in a secondary stat ? I mean each time lvl up we can only give point 1 time on a stat , for Spearman aim for VIT and a secondary stat ( mine is MIND ) ....So 5 lvl for VIT and 1 lvl for MIND ?


There will come a time when adding your main stat becomes a tee bit inefficient.
http://onigiri.wikia.com/wiki/Stats

Referring to the "Status Points required to increase stat" table on the Onigiri wiki, you can see that at certain levels, the number of stat points needed to increase your main stat grows at a stupidly high rate. Around stat level 70-74-ish, the number of stat points needed to increase your VIT goes up by one after 4 levels. However, after that the stat point needed increases by one every 3 levels, and that quickly becomes 2 levels. At this point it starts to become inefficient to continue adding your main stat. This is where you start to consider adding a secondary stat. Exactly what point you start to do so depends on your own decision, but make sure you stop at the point where the stat point needed goes up by one for maximum efficiency.

However, as a spear user, your main stat is VIT, and unlike a lot of other stats, VIT is always welcome, so feel free to add VIT until it is maxed out before you start adding a secondary stat.

Motoharu wrote:Is 3rd Stat is a good option ?

If you like seeing really low damage numbers on everything you do, yes.
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