Sign Up

[Guide] How to Axe??

Post helpful information for other players here.

[Guide] How to Axe??

Postby SupremeTentacle » 07 Mar 2015, 12:34

It's been a long time since I actually posted something helpful - so why not. Naturally, any criticism/complaints/suggestions/whatever are welcome.

Note: Before we start, keep in mind that the guide itself is not really that in depth. However, my knowledge of axe is not limited to what is written down here, so, if the information you want isn't here, feel free to ask any questions and I will respond accordingly whenever I see them.

[Overview, Weaknesses and Strengths]
Of the 8 weapons in Onigiri, axe is around the middle of the tier list. Despite the recent bow buffs causing it to see a jump in viability, the less mobile axe is seeing quite a bit of action. But, do players really understand how to axe? Despite the fact that you may have seen axes hit absurdly large numbers, none of this actually is that easy. Axe is, undoubtedly, a weapon that takes a chunk of your pocket to play. That is, it is EXTREMELY difficult to play axes without gear.

Like swords and twin swords, axes are very ougi dependent. Playing without ougi leads to a severe disadvantage. This is especially applicable starting from the intermediate levels. But even with ougi, lower level axes suffer from many problems that very, very few other weapons do.

First of all, axes consist mainly of single target, non-lock on skills. That is, skills will do maximum damage to a very small number of targets, and do very low damage to the rest of the targets. This doesn't just apply to regular skills, but even goes as far as to gimp axe's ougi. Staff is the only other weapon that suffers in the same manner, due to the size of their AOE. However, this has been mitigated by the ougi on the Satan staff as well as the addition of the 4th ougi card. More about the axe side of this will be discussed in a later section.

Secondly, axe is the only weapon type in the game that has to suffer from gimped movement speed. The most powerful magatama, Wadatsumi Magatama, comes with a -5 penalty to both movement and attack speed. Since you move slower, this implies that you will also clear dungeons more slowly than others, simply because of movement restrictions. Note that the use of this magatama is not optional. One should not consider using anything else at the moment simply because it provides at least 35% more power over every single alternative. Skipping out on this magatama is something that should never, EVER be done until after the Tsuki Zenpen patch.

Finally, axe is gimped in terms of attack speed. With the exception of Asura Spin, all axe skills have start up time, meaning a player has to anticipate what will happen as opposed to other weapons, which can play more reactively.

However, despite these glaring weaknesses, axe is still amoungst the strongest trio. Why? The answer is simple.

Damage. Axe is the hardest hitting weapon. At the moment, there should not be a single method capable of doing more dps than Axe's maximized double edged cut, under the assumption that everyone is equally over-geared. The thing about axe is that its power is very obvious. Even without being geared extremely well, it's possible to one shot monsters that players more geared than you may have some trouble with. Furthermore, Axe's damage comes in huge bursts, which let you heal for 0->100% with a chiami. If you like this, and don't mind a speed penalty, then axe is for you.

[Skills]
In this section, every skill will be ranked S - F, and some other details will be provided. Analysis may be included if I feel that the skill is worth it. Note that multi-click skills tend to have better scaling, but this does not imply that they do better overall damage.

Sorry the screenshots are blury, was too lazy to screenshot someone else using them, so you get all the effects in their full, motion sickness inducing glory. Will update with more/better screenshots whenever I manage to get my hands on them.

Blazing Swing
Image
Rank: D
Same shitty startup as dark tornado, mediocre damage. Too much mana consumption.

Collapsing Blade
Image
Rank: E
Not useable due to dura nerf on EN server

Double Edged Cut
Image
Rank: A+
One of the best skills. Very situationally used though, because it sucks when you're full hp. Note the slight startup delay. Note that this skill is a bit more difficult to use than others due to the fact that you have to stay low health and not die.

Dust Storm Blast
Image
Rank: C
Slow. Damage is okay, but toooo slow. Also even slower if used off an edge or after a skill that makes you rise into the air.

Sacred Strike
Image
Rank: B
Too much commit for all 3 ticks of R7 of the skill, but you can cancel it at anytime, which is nice. It scales well and has solid damage when maxed.

Ice Blade
Image
Rank: C
Good for bosses, but often pushes regular mobs away before they die

Flying Lightning Strike
Image
Rank: C
Surprisingly Useable, but long start up

Rapid Collapse Strike
Image
Rank: B

Sacrifice

Image
Rank: B
Gimped version of the Odachi sacrifice due to mob hit limit. Not actually very useable

Splasher
Image
Rank: B
Somewhat useable. Startup isn't too bad, but the aoe is pretty small. Most useful against annoying monsters that resist the rest of your attacks, such as the Tentouki boss. Note that it scales well with level, but the rank 7 is difficult to obtain as you have to skill change to get it.

Static Axe
Image
Rank: A
It's not the best due to the speed, but it does a decent amount of damage when maxed. This serves as axe's second best mobbing tool (though its still not good for that.) A good tip would be to just use the firsthit of the skill then switch to another skill, as using only the first hit gives you a swift strike that does a good amount of damage. All hits after the first tend to come with a long start up. At higher ranks, this skill also appears to increase its hit area.

Another thing to note is that it scales very nicely with both the rank and level of the skill.

Tornado Drop
Image
Rank: S
Superior version of flying lightning strike. Literally the only real mob tool axe has, but even then, it only does maximum damage to 1-2 targets per tick. It also serves as axe's secondary ranged option. Note that it is sometimes dangerous to use due to the long start up time, but the large range and the incredible damage make up for this.

Note that Tornado drop is a skill that involves a decent skill cap. During the backwards leap near the end of the skill's animation, a player is able to cast another skill. If timed correctly, the player will get the full backwards leap, and pull off the skill that was launched afterwards. For example this could allow the player to use rock shattering strike while retreating without dedicating any time to it. The best part about this is - after using the second skill, Tornado drop's brandish animation can still happen, cancelling the animation of the second skill and providing the player yet another window to cancel into a skill. Note that this can be performed only with the most perfect timing. If the player messes up slightly, the effects will change depending on the skill.

For example, if performed a bit after the timing for the double skill cancel, Asura spin can result in cancelling Tornado drop's back step. Instead, the player will immediately stop being lifted into the air and step forwards onto the ground.

Harvester

Rank: D
Just don't.

Blue Fang Blade
Image
Rank: A
Good as a sniping tool ONLY IF you have enough damage. Serves to function as a great wind core with tornado drop if doing a wind build.

Fierce God's Focus
Image
Rank: A
Good skill on a wind build, not as useful on a slice build

Way of the Axe
Image
Rank: F
Useless unless it gets buffed, as it only seems to give affinity

Asura's Thunder (Spin)
Image
Rank: S
Best axe skill for consistent damage. Quite fast, gives AOE around you and hits up to 4 targets for max damage.

Dark Tornado
Image
Rank: F
Even in a wind build, this does no damage at all. It has a shitty start up jump that is gimped, as it's bugged so that the first hit only lands if you aim to the side of a monster. But even if you land this hit, the skill does mediocre damage as a whole.

Inferno Crave
Image
Rank: FF
Dark tornado, except you have to charge for 3 seconds first, and there isn't a tornado.

Purple Lightning Rain
Image
Rank: C
Useable, kinda. But it wastes an ougi slot.

Rock Shattering Strike
Image
Rank: B
Only other ougi that can be used besides Asura as of the edo patch. Has an okay amount of AOE. However, like all other axe skills, suffers from the mob limit problem, so it's not really a mob tool. The damage only feels good if you are using mist tengu for the + earth.

[Clearing Dungeons (Efficiently) with Axe]
This section of the guide consists of the method by which axe players should approach dungeons. Note that this method is MUCH different from other players, and is rather situational. Axe players have to approach monsters different depending on how much damage they can do.

For slice builds.
If Tornado Drop does enough to clear a mob with a single cast
Proceed like all other players. Round things up, TD, move to next room

Else
Run up to a small group of monsters and use Asura spin. Rinse, repeat. Never mob. Use tornado drop to snipe monsters slightly too far away.

For wind builds
Tornado drop should always do the job. Snipe faraway enemies with BFB

That's the basic method, but here's the tricky part. Axes have trouble approaching ranged enemies, as they don't have the movement speed to get up to them before they attack the way that other weapon types can. Hence, to approach enemies like Musha archers, you have to run in a clockwise arc. Note that if they attempt to attack you, you should roll forwards. This isn't something that can be understood just from an explanation, and it can only really act as a guideline - you'll have to try it in game for yourself to really understand what to do.


[Damage Maximization]
Title of section explains the contents.

Like I've mentioned above, axe is a weapon that really needs some amount of gear to function. Keep in mind that everything mentioned below is only up to date as of the Edo patch. There's two types of viable axe builds, and I'll talk about them in turn. But, before that, the most important thing to note is that there are certain things that are standard to all axes.

Universal Requirements
First of all, you should only ever consider two types of Magatama: Chiami and Wadatsumi. You shouldn't even bother thinking about using any other types of Magatama, you lose way too much damage or do not gain any real utlity. Magatama that increase your critical are traps for nublets, axe does not need any affinity Magatama due to the only title providing more than enough for this content cap, and slice magatama are basically useless since they don't give any other useful stats. (In other words, get the Date Masamune title. The rest of the titles are crap for axe. The EXP and ryou gain titles are not worth it, because you would gain more exp from having faster clears than you would for having a slight base boost. The upfront ryou cost also exceeds what you would gain back unless you keep it for a long time, which chances are, you won't)

Keep in mind that the Wind build is also the only build that does not require chiami, since other than a wind build, axe is NOT viable without life steal. That doesn't mean you cannot clear dungeons without it. You simply cannot do them quickly enough.

Wind Build
How dis twerk? Iz simple.
Between your four Magatama, you want the following stats:

4 Ornamentation for Heavenly Shield, each of which has a wind element increase on it.
4 Fated Conractors, each of which has critical on it. Having both slice and crit is ideal, but not as important as for a slice build.

You will be using the following three skills almost exclusively, and they will form the best possible setup on every weapon.
Blue Fang Blade.
Tornado Drop.
Double Edged Cut. (Not wind, but still good)

Assuming that your gear is ideal, blue fang blade and tornado drop will both be getting a 60% increase in damage due to your ornamentations. You should have enough critical to do a decent amount of DPS. Note that this build harbours a disadvantage in the fact that it is not completely maximized for DPS, but more so for safety. However, it is still viable.

Full Slice Build
8 Fated Contractors or 6 fateds + 2 confining terrors (on chiami exclusively)
Slice and crit is required for each one. Any other stats are optional.

This is an Asura Spin build. You will be abusing your best skill, and literally spamming it like no tommorow. It has higher dps, and your regular skills don't matter as much (except you should still always take double edged cut and tornado drop if possible.) This skill has higher dps, but note that it's also much more costly.

Warning: Incoming Math. Ctrl-f "Math Done" to skip this section
Note that to calculate your relative dps while comparing gear, follow the formula below.
Damage = [(total skill force/100 + 1) * (0.X * (total element1/100 + 1)) + (total skill force + 1) * (1- 0.X *( total element2/100 +1))]
Damage accounting for crits = [Critical * 1.5 * damage] + [1-critical * damage]
Note that due to flat crit damage, the second of the too isn't too too accurate. However, critical damage seems to flatten out around that number when you have very high damage numbers and no critical force.

Example
4 Wadatsumi Magatama
104 Total Slice (8 perfect roll fateds)
15 Wind (accessory)
92 Critical (24 base, 64 from maga, 4 from axe bonus)

Asura Spin (100% slice) = (4 * .68 + 1) * (1.04+1) = 3.72 * 2.04 = 7.5888 = 758.88% damage compared to someone without Magatama
Taking Critical into account
Base (crit) = 1.5 * 0.24 + 1 * (1 - 0.24) = 1.12
Geared = 7.5888 * 1.5 * .92 + 7.5888 * .08 = apx 11.08.
Comparison: 11.08/1.12 = apx 9.89 = 989% damage over someone ungeared

Tornado Drop (30% Slice, 70% Wind) = (4 * .68 + 1) * 0.3 * (1.04+1) + (4 * .68 + 1) * 0.7* (0.15+1) = 3.72 * 0.3 *2.04 + 3.72 * 0.7 * 1.15 = 2.27664 + 2.9946 = 5.27124 = 527.124% damage relative to someone without Magatama
Taking Critical into account
Base (crit) = 1.5 * 0.24 + 1 * (1 - 0.24) = 1.12
Geared = 5.27124 * 1.5 * .92 + 5.27124 * .08 = apx 7.70
Comparison 7.7/1.12 = apx 6.87 = 687% damage over someone ungeared


Here is another sample calculation. This one also shows off why building wind can lead to success.
4 Wadatsumi Magatama
52 Total Slice (4 perfect roll fateds)
111 Total Wind (4 perfect roll shields + accessory)
54 Critical (24 base, 32 from maga, 2 from axe bonus)

Asura Spin = 3.72 * (0.52 + 1) = 5.6544 = 565.44% damage compared to someone without Magatama
Wind Build / Slice Build * 100% = 74.5% damage compared to a slice build.
Taking Critical into account
Base (crit) = 1.5 * 0.24 + 1 * (1 - 0.24) = 1.12
Geared = 5.6544 * 1.5 * .54 + 5.6544 * .46 = apx 7.18
Comparison: 7.18/1.12 = 6.41 = 641% damage compared to someone ungeared
641/989 = 64.83% damage compared to someone using a full slice build

Tornado drop = 3.72 * .3 * 1.52 + 3.72 * .7 * 2.11 = 1.69632 + 5.49444 = 7.19076 = 719.076% damage compared to someone without Magatama.
Wind Build / Slice Build * 100% = 136.46% Tornado drop damage over a slice build
Taking Critical into account
Base (crit) = 1.5 * 0.24 + 1 * (1 - 0.24) = 1.12
Geared = 7.19076 * 1.5 *.54 + 7.19076 * .46 = apx 9.13
Comparison: 9.13/1.12 = 8.15 = 815% damage relative to someone ungeared
815/687 = apx. 1.19 = 19% damage over someone using a full slice build.

Note that, mathematically, a wind build seems inferior, but one has to realize that tornado drop is a VERY strong skill, and it also has some degree of ranged damage. Note that blue fang blade should experience the same percentage difference in damage between the two builds as tornado drop, as it shares the same elemental ratios. It is still a viable play style.

Furthermore, note that both of the above status spreads are obtainable in game.

Math Done

Status Point Investment
Keep in mind the following when investing status points.
Rapid storm's speed scales off attack.
Resurrection requires 75 mind.
Rapid storm requires 40 mind.
Attack speed = Pow/12 + Dex/24
Critical = Dex/12 + Wis/24
Cooldown Reduction = Dex/12 + Mind/24
Rear attack = HP Regeneration = 100 + Vit/2
The english version of the game contains a mistranslation.


My advice is as follows:


Power until 99 base. Note that people who plan on only using the Garma Killma CROSS as opposed to the half moon crimson or the garma star should only invest 90.
Dexterity until at least 100 total to capitalize on maximum benefits from the cool down reduction and critical strike.
Mind until at least 40 (rapid storm).

After this is complete, the player may invest their points however they want, depending on exactly what they want to pursue. Getting at least 75 total mind to use Resurrection is optional. In general, its a good idea to try maximizing critical through dex and wis investment. Note that you get the most out of this if you invest so that your wisdom consistently costs half of your dex. Take vitality as you see fit, in the case that you feel too squishy or feel you can hit enemies from behind often. Note that it always is good to have stat totals in multiples of 10 for Wisdom, Mind and Power due to the passive benefits. However, having over 100 wisdom no longer decreases sp costs, and having over 100 mind no longer increases sp regen.

Here is an example of my ideal build.
Image



Another thing worth mentioning relating to builds is Axe's hidden passive. That is, your critical is increasd by 1 for every 20 while wielding an axe. For example, if you have 60 critical, and then you put on an axe, this will be bumped to 63. Assuming that you have decent Magatama, the above build should set you up with the +4 bonus for having at least 80 crit. Note that this does not stack with itself. So for example, if you had 78 crit before the passive, you would get up to 81 after the passive. You would not get another extra crit for passing 80.
Last edited by SupremeTentacle on 26 May 2015, 08:10, edited 24 times in total.
Selling all of my gear for ~40% of its market value!
~4 lv. 108 to 115 weapons remaining
Some skill card 7's, ougi, orna'd maga and other stuff too!
User avatar
SupremeTentacle
 
Posts: 1446
Joined: 04 Jun 2014, 11:30
Location: North South Canada

Re: How to Axe - WIP, updating weekly

Postby GarmaKillma » 08 Mar 2015, 16:49

Great Guide. If you wouldn't have made this, I would have. I like your grading of each skill you listed, pretty accurate with my experiences as well. I started this game as an axe user, and early on I couldn't really put any cash towards this. IceBlade / Freezing Ice Blade was my greatest mob tool until I reached Hokurikudo. It got me through the rough patches though even with its negative side effects.
GarmaKillma
 
Posts: 9
Joined: 11 Feb 2015, 22:49

Re: How to Axe - WIP, updating weekly

Postby SupremeTentacle » 10 Mar 2015, 08:59

GarmaKillma wrote:Great Guide. If you wouldn't have made this, I would have. I like your grading of each skill you listed, pretty accurate with my experiences as well. I started this game as an axe user, and early on I couldn't really put any cash towards this. IceBlade / Freezing Ice Blade was my greatest mob tool until I reached Hokurikudo. It got me through the rough patches though even with its negative side effects.


Despite the fact that I give it a low grade, I'm also a fan of Ice Blade. It's pretty good for players who are new to bossing with axe, and gives them some leeway in terms of freezes against non-major bosses.

Edit: Guide is now completed.
Selling all of my gear for ~40% of its market value!
~4 lv. 108 to 115 weapons remaining
Some skill card 7's, ougi, orna'd maga and other stuff too!
User avatar
SupremeTentacle
 
Posts: 1446
Joined: 04 Jun 2014, 11:30
Location: North South Canada

Re: [Guide] How to Axe??

Postby Lis_ » 15 Mar 2015, 01:36

Really loved the fact you pointed out the math behind the builds. Now, my mind might be playing tricks on me but if it isn't i believe some of the lv 100 and above axes (and curiously enough so does Grim Reaper) grant a small percentage of critical on their own. I believe it is worth mentioning. If you did already mention it and i didn't simply find it i apologise. Great guide.
Lis_
 
Posts: 33
Joined: 08 Nov 2014, 16:27

Re: [Guide] How to Axe??

Postby SupremeTentacle » 15 Mar 2015, 11:57

Lis_ wrote:Really loved the fact you pointed out the math behind the builds. Now, my mind might be playing tricks on me but if it isn't i believe some of the lv 100 and above axes (and curiously enough so does Grim Reaper) grant a small percentage of critical on their own. I believe it is worth mentioning. If you did already mention it and i didn't simply find it i apologise. Great guide.


I mentioned it at the bottom of the guide xD (CTRL-F Hidden Passive). Should I make it more visible by moving it somewhere?

It applies to every axe, not just the high level ones.
Selling all of my gear for ~40% of its market value!
~4 lv. 108 to 115 weapons remaining
Some skill card 7's, ougi, orna'd maga and other stuff too!
User avatar
SupremeTentacle
 
Posts: 1446
Joined: 04 Jun 2014, 11:30
Location: North South Canada

Re: [Guide] How to Axe??

Postby Lis_ » 15 Mar 2015, 13:05

SupremeTentacle wrote:I mentioned it at the bottom of the guide xD (CTRL-F Hidden Passive). Should I make it more visible by moving it somewhere?

It applies to every axe, not just the high level ones.

Apologies, didn't notice. No, I think its fine now that I've actually find it and read it.
Lis_
 
Posts: 33
Joined: 08 Nov 2014, 16:27

Re: [Guide] How to Axe??

Postby SupremeTentacle » 14 Apr 2015, 07:10

Updated for the most recent patch.

EDIT: Mostly reverted b/c CS made a translation mistake.
Selling all of my gear for ~40% of its market value!
~4 lv. 108 to 115 weapons remaining
Some skill card 7's, ougi, orna'd maga and other stuff too!
User avatar
SupremeTentacle
 
Posts: 1446
Joined: 04 Jun 2014, 11:30
Location: North South Canada

Re: [Guide] How to Axe??

Postby Rekt » 25 Sep 2015, 00:04

would it be better to put crit force orna on chiami for axe ?
and if so then why?











p.s : i don't know anything about this type of stuff.. >.>
User avatar
Rekt
 
Posts: 7
Joined: 24 Sep 2015, 02:53

Re: [Guide] How to Axe??

Postby SupremeTentacle » 25 Sep 2015, 08:05

No.

When you use Chiami, you should build for consistency as opposed to damage. Hence, more critical is better than more critical force.

Do note that this guide is pretty outdated. I'll update it if something magical happens and I get less lazy.
Selling all of my gear for ~40% of its market value!
~4 lv. 108 to 115 weapons remaining
Some skill card 7's, ougi, orna'd maga and other stuff too!
User avatar
SupremeTentacle
 
Posts: 1446
Joined: 04 Jun 2014, 11:30
Location: North South Canada

Re: [Guide] How to Axe??

Postby Rekt » 26 Sep 2015, 00:18

oh ok
thanks for the information
I find ur guides really helpful so thanks for making them and keep up the good work
User avatar
Rekt
 
Posts: 7
Joined: 24 Sep 2015, 02:53

Next

Return to Guides & Strategy

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

cron