Onigiri's Sustainability - An Analysis of Playerbase Decline

[Ryxa]

By the way guys, keep the discussion going. We're going to put together a HUGE list of complaints and such together (Including the complaints we don't really think are necessary). We've already got a 7 page documents with entire PARAGRAPHS dedicated to single complaints and I'm expecting at least another 5-10 with the complaints we have listed down already (Not even including the new ones that have popped up in this document). Thanks for your time and effort.

[AtmaMoogle]

Don't forget chian magatama isn't easy to obtain there for it seems more like an end game magatama not everyone can get it and it requires the sacrifice of a magatama slot which would decrease your damage by a significant amount. Also doesnt hurt to have a healer in the group incase your hp goes down enough to where u have no room for chian to kick in the fact that there aren't many real support players will just make things more difficult.

I actually disagree, Orange Glass Marble is actually pretty common nowadays after the dungeon master event. On top of that farming one takes like 1-5 hours depending on your luck (unfortunately it took me about 8 hours, but lets assume I'm an outlier). Even if you'e to lazy to farm, there are plenty of people who farm it anyway and sell them for 50-60c if you're desperate. At this point, I don't know who DOESN'T have a Chian that "carries" people. It's legitimately a staple for self sustain. And I already argued against the fact that Chian is actually more reliable another than humans reaction speed to actually heal you, it's faster to heal yourself to full with Chian. As a result of this, I still think that the current Onigiri system still encourages solo-play and needs to be balanced. Which still brings be back to the party system as a whole.

[SupremeTentacle]

About clear times.

I mean - when I was 8x or 9x, I could do secluded in 3:xx or the higher 2:xx's. At that point though - it wasn't even because of class, it was simply because I the dungeon so many times that I had the most optimal mob routes in muscle memory.

As for Grotto: Times for this dungeon are all not that great in reality. Its too long. (And its not even efficient for exp past like lv 80, but rather, just popularized.)

Estate takes me 3:xx - 4:xx with Lv 92 gold weapons.

So, 2 minute clear isn't really possible at this point xD;

Also, staff simply has not had its niche dps roll scaled in yet. Once rank 8 holy light is out... staff can be one of the most OP boss dpser's, until they get hit once by anything. In the first place, I personally don't agree with the concept of a full support weapon in this game. Unfortunately, since we're allowed to spread our stats so much, there should be no one who doesn't have another weapon with which they do a large amount of damage.

Also, note that I have to control my mana consumption even with an invigorate 6 dropped on me. If I really wanted to spam, I'd run out pretty fast. Also, note that, in estate, its not actually efficient at all to clear a room with a single wds. You're better off running in, and clearing sections of the room at a time. Unlike in secluded, the mobs in estate are much more densely packed, but have ranged attacks - so they are less inclined to follow you.

The part that speeds up estate runs is effectively your strategy for each room.

Quite often, I can't even use WDS in rooms with Kubire Oni, as they'll shred me if I position incorrectly.

Of course, I'm not saying spear is weak or slow, I'm just saying its not effortless to clear the dungeon, as its a pain in the ass for just about everyone.

@ Arge.

You say that people who quit because pop star expired are unnecessary, but then you realize that those people are mostly people who dish out a large amount of cash in the first place, implying that some big spenders may vanish.

I am, by no means, against nerfing chian, but I think that before that happens, the targetting system needs to be completely fixed - or else there would be this awkward period where everyone's dungeon clear speed would be significantly lower.

Pow and HP also do not really scale statically, they have an exponential scaling based on level, which is also what base hp is based off of.

I don't see why percent values on your gear is a bad idea. I think its fine, but the problem is that fated is literally available to everyone. I think that, instead of this, we should just make it available on less types of magatama.

At the moment, defense scaling is absolutely useless... a slight buff won't do much. In the first place, I'm against player buffing - and think monsters should be buffed instead >_> This whole game seems to follow the concept that both you and the enemies do such high damage numbers to each other that you can completely shred one another - and honestly, that's one of the fun points of the game.

One of my favourite things is how quickly a monster that's like 10 levels under me can kill me in one hit - simply as it adds another layer of depth to the game, and keeps player interaction. It prevents grinding from becoming mindless.

@ Tek

Chian itself is pretty easy to get. The thing difficult to get is good orns, considering the amount of time it takes to farm a chian.

@ Bern

I agree with the effects on elemental attacks - they don't proc enough for you to really notice them, so it would be nice to have them well... more obvious, and with a higher proc rate.

[Tekato]

Don't forget chian magatama isn't easy to obtain there for it seems more like an end game magatama not everyone can get it and it requires the sacrifice of a magatama slot which would decrease your damage by a significant amount. Also doesnt hurt to have a healer in the group incase your hp goes down enough to where u have no room for chian to kick in the fact that there aren't many real support players will just make things more difficult.

I actually disagree, Orange Glass Marble is actually pretty common nowadays after the dungeon master event. On top of that farming one takes like 1-5 hours depending on your luck (unfortunately it took me about 8 hours, but lets assume I'm an outlier). Even if you'e to lazy to farm, there are plenty of people who farm it anyway and sell them for 50-60c if you're desperate. At this point, I don't know who DOESN'T have a Chian that "carries" people. It's legitimately a staple for self sustain. And I already argued against the fact that Chian is actually more reliable another than humans reaction speed to actually heal you, it's faster to heal yourself to full with Chian. As a result of this, I still think that the current Onigiri system still encourages solo-play and needs to be balanced. Which still brings be back to the party system as a whole.

Maybe wait till they fix the support class and make it more viable aswell as their targeting system before thinking about removing chian which is pretty much the only way to survive water dragons in grotto. 90% of the leechers waiting outside of grotto can't even properly invigorate let alone heal properly.. Which yea ur right does go back to the whole party system

[-x-SongNhi-x-]

You guys are getting in way way too deep of a discussion regarding stats, tweaking minor things and the core mechanics of the game.

In all honesty, players are quitting because of lack of things to do. Thats simply it, we can put up with all the rest of the bullBleepz if there were things to do. Lack of content and nothing but a big grind leading to no reward or satisfaction = players leaving.

Chian modification, stat tweaking, skill tweaking, it doesnt matter to me I wanna play for things to do, as most other casuals they will run out of things to do and if you cant keep your casual players then your 5% hardcore players will get bored watching themselves talk to each other only.

We need something more than just running dungeons over n over without any purpose other than xp and the odd material drop. Aramitama is fun challenge but requires such a high lvl team that its out of the question for most casuals.

There are still many things wrong and missing with this game, like guild/group things. The chat group thing is useless as its lagged and doesnt update correctly to see whos online/offline/location/level. The friendslist is meh...I have to go into the menu to find out whos on, i should have a list of friends visible and notified when they are on/off. Simple things like that found in every other mmo are not in here. We are all leagueless/guildless and trying to form parties for "soloing" dungeons for xp is silly too. It really does feel like an offline game with real people running around, the interaction side sucks. "Trading = nah RMT, PT help? yeah ok if u have SP/Rapid, help kill = no u will mess up mob grouping and we all die in crossfire." Thats the gist of it.

[AtmaMoogle]

In all honesty, players are quitting because of lack of things to do. Thats simply it, we can put up with all the rest of the bullBleepz if there were things to do. Lack of content and nothing but a big grind leading to no reward or satisfaction = players leaving.

I completely agree with you, but the fact that soloing(+SP slave) is more efficient than actually partying is what's killing the game imo. Yes, grind fests are tedious, but that doesn't mean boring all the time. Unforunately it's EXTREMELY boring in Onigiri because of: Exp rates, Lack of an actual party system, and like you said, straight up nothing to do BUT grind.

And yes, the social part of the game should be tweaked on.. a lot. :l

[Compa-IF]

I want Pet system + New costume, and can obtain from event or mission or Ryou-shop (pls no Cash-shop only)

[Argentum]

@ Arge.

You say that people who quit because pop star expired are unnecessary, but then you realize that those people are mostly people who dish out a large amount of cash in the first place, implying that some big spenders may vanish.

this comment is purely stated from the perspective of contribution to the community, which is usualy not much from that kind of player as they are only going with fotm. the companys perspective is of course another one.

I am, by no means, against nerfing chian, but I think that before that happens, the targetting system needs to be completely fixed - or else there would be this awkward period where everyone's dungeon clear speed would be significantly lower.

while i agree that support targeting needs fixes fast, i disagree on longer clear times being a bad thing. the main issue why people want to go so fast is mostly reliant on "keeping up with the rest" and also "i am outleveling the content quite badly". and just because healing becomes an option the gameplay wouldnt slow down because of targeting seeing as they will not touch up the damage values and the carry mentality would still be consistent. so the support would just need to lock on to the carry and keep that lock on.

Pow and HP also do not really scale statically, they have an exponential scaling based on level, which is also what base hp is based off of.

the problem is the relative tankiness compared to non power/vit characters. because the difference from base health is to low and the main hp boost being multiplers from ornaments.

I don't see why percent values on your gear is a bad idea. I think its fine, but the problem is that fated is literally available to everyone. I think that, instead of this, we should just make it available on less types of magatama.

dont get me wrong, im not against percent values on GEAR, im against percent values on ORNAMENTS. having to equip a specific weapon or magatama for massive health boosts is a lot different from equiping a damage maga and getting some free HP multiplers just cause they happen to exist on the cheapest crit enchant that you naturally want to have for your chian (oh that synergy, i could cry.)

At the moment, defense scaling is absolutely useless... a slight buff won't do much. In the first place, I'm against player buffing - and think monsters should be buffed instead >_> This whole game seems to follow the concept that both you and the enemies do such high damage numbers to each other that you can completely shred one another - and honestly, that's one of the fun points of the game.

a quick look at it told me otherwise, its more the difference in health that is killing the current defence reduction ... or rather the lack of difference in health pools. if you actually had decent difference in health pools you would notice the armor damage reduction alot more. but like i stated before, it would require a much more accurate look at defense mechanics to judge them correctly. there are to many factors untested to make a reasonable suggestion as of now

One of my favourite things is how quickly a monster that's like 10 levels under me can kill me in one hit - simply as it adds another layer of depth to the game, and keeps player interaction. It prevents grinding from becoming mindless.

one hit kill abilities can be fun mechanics and add challange, but they should be used correctly and not be the only thing you encounter. the way the game is now, the monster damage removes depth if anything (because it limits your available playstyles)
this isnt a problem that only this game faces, though.

[SupremeTentacle]

@ Arge.

You say that people who quit because pop star expired are unnecessary, but then you realize that those people are mostly people who dish out a large amount of cash in the first place, implying that some big spenders may vanish.

this comment is purely stated from the perspective of contribution to the community, which is usualy not much from that kind of player as they are only going with fotm. the companys perspective is of course another one.

I am, by no means, against nerfing chian, but I think that before that happens, the targetting system needs to be completely fixed - or else there would be this awkward period where everyone's dungeon clear speed would be significantly lower.

while i agree that support targeting needs fixes fast, i disagree on longer clear times being a bad thing. the main issue why people want to go so fast is mostly reliant on "keeping up with the rest" and also "i am outleveling the content quite badly". and just because healing becomes an option the gameplay wouldnt slow down because of targeting seeing as they will not touch up the damage values and the carry mentality would still be consistent. so the support would just need to lock on to the carry and keep that lock on.

The slow clear times on its own isn't bad - its just that the change would be... more of a nuisance than actually having a real impact in my opinion. And without any other changes, but that, it would feel demotivating to an extennt. I mean - I feel like the changes should come bundled together to ensure the fluidity, if you catch my drift?

Its more to do with the fact that it would imply you have to sit there and guzzle hp pots - which isn't a bad thing, but due to the animation that plays in this game, sitting there and eating 5 pots takes like a year, and feels like a waste of time. Of course, this can be disregarded with a healer.

I'm not saying that healing becoming an option is what would slow it down - but rather, the fact that the poor targeting system causing healing to be delayed is. While the carry mentality does work in dungeons, when you do things such as aramitama, a support cannot just keep a lock on a single person and spam heals on them - they actively have to change targets, which again, is impaired by the current system. On top of that, they also need to contribute themselves, since with the current player damage output, all five should be doing quite a bit of damage if you want to clear it. However, my point is more towards arami specifically, while your point is extremely valid for single carry dungeons. (which is something we hope will change though)

Pow and HP also do not really scale statically, they have an exponential scaling based on level, which is also what base hp is based off of.

the problem is the relative tankiness compared to non power/vit characters. because the difference from base health is to low and the main hp boost being multiplers from ornaments.

To be honest, I don't feel this way. Without any fated contractors, my base hp @ 105 without any pow or vit, because the innate vit that comes from scaling based on a defensive nature type is around 7k. Once I put in some status, I get up to 12.5k. Note that however, I do have a large amount of it. Increasing the scaling from this would need to come with a huge damage buff to bosses specifically, as bosses not one shotting with certain things, like nyaruko's satellite cannon, feels somewhat ridiculous.

I don't see why percent values on your gear is a bad idea. I think its fine, but the problem is that fated is literally available to everyone. I think that, instead of this, we should just make it available on less types of magatama.

dont get me wrong, im not against percent values on GEAR, im against percent values on ORNAMENTS. having to equip a specific weapon or magatama for massive health boosts is a lot different from equiping a damage maga and getting some free HP multiplers just cause they happen to exist on the cheapest crit enchant that you naturally want to have for your chian (oh that synergy, i could cry.)

Sorry, this was bad phrasing on my part. I meant to address ornamentation as well. I do agree that not everyone should have easily compatible access to hp multipliers though. Hence, my suggestion was to restrict it to certain types of magatama, so that it would not be universally compatible.

At the moment, defense scaling is absolutely useless... a slight buff won't do much. In the first place, I'm against player buffing - and think monsters should be buffed instead >_> This whole game seems to follow the concept that both you and the enemies do such high damage numbers to each other that you can completely shred one another - and honestly, that's one of the fun points of the game.

a quick look at it told me otherwise, its more the difference in health that is killing the current defence reduction ... or rather the lack of difference in health pools. if you actually had decent difference in health pools you would notice the armor damage reduction alot more. but like i stated before, it would require a much more accurate look at defense mechanics to judge them correctly. there are to many factors untested to make a reasonable suggestion as of now

One of my favourite things is how quickly a monster that's like 10 levels under me can kill me in one hit - simply as it adds another layer of depth to the game, and keeps player interaction. It prevents grinding from becoming mindless.

one hit kill abilities can be fun mechanics and add challange, but they should be used correctly and not be the only thing you encounter. the way the game is now, the monster damage removes depth if anything (because it limits your available playstyles)
this isnt a problem that only this game faces, though.

That's true. I can't argue much about that, other than personal preference, which is not really valid.

I want Pet system + New costume, and can obtain from event or mission or Ryou-shop (pls no Cash-shop only)

Pets are nice, but I don't really see how they would contribute to gameplay elements, other than "my doge is cute<3."

Could you please elaborate on your idea?

Also, ther was a yukata exclusively from events, and there are some ryou-based costumes. Although the yakata wasn't very pretty, I think some of the ryou costumes look decent - in fact, I'm currently using a mix of a ryou and nyankoro costume myself.

You guys are getting in way way too deep of a discussion regarding stats, tweaking minor things and the core mechanics of the game.

In all honesty, players are quitting because of lack of things to do. Thats simply it, we can put up with all the rest of the bullBleepz if there were things to do. Lack of content and nothing but a big grind leading to no reward or satisfaction = players leaving.

I definitely agree with you - we're getting really deep into the mechanical problems with the game. While we're not overlooking the fact that lack of content is a huge problem, we didn't actively discuss it either. From your standpoint, what type of content could be added - other than extending the end game? We've mentioned minigames before, but we didn't really have many ideas about them.

Chian modification, stat tweaking, skill tweaking, it doesnt matter to me I wanna play for things to do, as most other casuals they will run out of things to do and if you cant keep your casual players then your 5% hardcore players will get bored watching themselves talk to each other only.

We need something more than just running dungeons over n over without any purpose other than xp and the odd material drop. Aramitama is fun challenge but requires such a high lvl team that its out of the question for most casuals.

There are still many things wrong and missing with this game, like guild/group things. The chat group thing is useless as its lagged and doesnt update correctly to see whos online/offline/location/level. The friendslist is meh...I have to go into the menu to find out whos on, i should have a list of friends visible and notified when they are on/off. Simple things like that found in every other mmo are not in here. We are all leagueless/guildless and trying to form parties for "soloing" dungeons for xp is silly too. It really does feel like an offline game with real people running around, the interaction side sucks. "Trading = nah RMT, PT help? yeah ok if u have SP/Rapid, help kill = no u will mess up mob grouping and we all die in crossfire." Thats the gist of it.

Commenting on the crossfire thing - yes. The mobs are a little bit messy right now, and that's a real problem, and one of the biggest reason people vouch for solo carries instead of party participation. I'm not sure how it could be fixed without redesigning monsters though...

[Lynneth]

Since this game focus is on PvE, why not make it more interesting for players to clear, while fixing some fundamental gameplay/game mechanics to make player experience more enjoyable?

-Scoreboard/Dungeon Master List-
Create an incentive for active players, and emerging player kind of Scoreboard and special dungeon event like the haunted house so that ppl can work together to achieve something.
Ppl inside will be given a fixed weapon/equips, and party must work together to finish it.
Right now, unless you're playing with friends or someone you know (even someone you know may not), there is little next to none in team work. And team work doesn't really be needed anyway.

-Achievement Features-
Create an achievement list for each player, like successful attempt on +100 weapon, clearing xxx dungeon in under xx minutes.
Clearing dungeon using no potions
Clearing specific dungeon without using skills

-Adding difficulties-.
Create new difficulties : Easy, Expert, Extreme

Buffing monsters :
Create new skills for monsters specific for Expert, and Extreme
Create new bosses and new drops
etc etc.

Fixing Support Class ? or already working as intended?
Fix the targeting system, if possible we can click on the party member picture to heal/buff, and not limited to between 2 people, instead we can interchange up to 4 people.
Makes Buff more useful, at least, gives something in %, not fixed amount of xxx.
Makes Area Buff and Area Healing more useful, like make Sanctuary not fixed on a place, but instead 'can be carried' with the player casting it ( can be put or carried ).
Kind of 'Aura' for support player and 'Command Aura' for DPS or 'Taunt' aura for tanker, so they don't need to cast. Well.. might be misused .

-Raid Boss Party-
-Make a 7-10 and 15-20 size of party, in order to make this successful, please fix the targeting system...
-Make a raid boss dungeon specific for this kind of party, so that it's NOT only grind grind grind and grinding.

-
Make Steal/Special attack accessible to all weapons
Make Buffs 'Way of' and 'Fierce God Focus' accessible to all weapons