Insane AXE damage

[OPPAI]

I disregarded spears for two reasons: Tidal Wave is nice but it's far from required. WDS/Ice Blossom themselves are extremely powerful skills that synergized well with what used to be end game content. Second, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, Echigo/Aramitama lasted as end game content far longer than Kaga did. So you had an extremely accessible weapon on top for a relatively short period of time. If you're going to have imbalance that's probably the best kind to have.

I have nothing against people using Ougis. That would just be silly. It's the way the game is currently designed and people who want to pay to win will. I dislike the model, not the players. Don't insult my intelligence like I can't distinguish where the real problem lies.

As for that finishing comment I made it because you agreed with me in an earlier post about Onigiri being pay to win but you're suddenly down my throat because I implied something that would lessen the value of the validation you strive for by throwing so much money at the game. Keep it up though, I'm sure that void will be filled some day.

Don't get me wrong, I'm only thunder beasting down your throat for assuming that choosing power weapon = easy mode. I believe that no one can really say shit till they play every weapon out there to their fullest from ground up. As you said, you don't have the resources to do so. I don't have it either, that's why I don't assume stuff out of the blue. If I'm gonna assume anything, I damn sure know that I may be wrong about it

And, hating the system but not hating the players who follow it? (You can disagree with me on this one, it's subjective) If a vegetarian truly believes that animals shouldn't be consumed, they'd feel something when meat eaters eat meat. (This doesn't include ignorance, but the choice to not give a shit about animals). Now in comparison, the system you hate so much is "pay to win". And I'm the one following it. I'm the one knowing that it is "pay to win". But I don't give a shit whether you don't like it or not. And by doing this I'm supporting the system even more. I am negating your effort to voice out the imbalances of "pay to win" system. You're not gonna hate me?
Btw, this isn't about whether I should be supporting the system or not, I'm just using myself as an example for the main topic, which is, whether you are truly hating the system alone, or both the people who follow it. Because no followers=no system. But I do think that this is quite a long piece of shit for something that minor.

And for your first paragraph, I still don't know how this proves your assumption of power=Easy mode. As you said, Spear was pretty much awesome in the early stages of the game till kaga, and it's not that Spears are useless now either. I had a hard time with axe at the early stages, and now when people start to switch to axe due to end game content, you assume that power weapons=easy mode? This topic isn't even about imbalances at the current stage of the game, it's about your assumptions about the process of each weapon thru the game.

[Annette]

And, hating the system but not hating the players who follow it? (You can disagree with me on this one, it's subjective) If a vegetarian truly believes that animals shouldn't be consumed, they'd feel something when meat eaters eat meat. (This doesn't include ignorance, but the choice to not give a shit about animals). Now in comparison, the system you hate so much is "pay to win". And I'm the one following it. I'm the one knowing that it is "pay to win". But I don't give a shit whether you don't like it or not. And by doing this I'm supporting the system even more. I am negating your effort to voice out the imbalances of "pay to win" system. You're not gonna hate me?
Btw, this isn't about whether I should be supporting the system or not, I'm just using myself as an example for the main topic, which is, whether you are truly hating the system alone, or both the people who follow it. Because no followers=no system. But I do think that this is quite a long piece of shit for something that minor.


And for your first paragraph, I still don't know how this proves your assumption of power=Easy mode. As you said, Spear was pretty much awesome in the early stages of the game till kaga, and it's not that Spears are useless now either. I had a hard time with axe at the early stages, and now when people start to switch to axe due to end game content, you assume that power weapons=easy mode? This topic isn't even about imbalances at the current stage of the game, it's about your assumptions about the process of each weapon thru the game.

Absolutely not. It would be beyond petulant to look at someone and say "I hate this individual because they're using options available to them." I'm very adamant in my thinking that the system is broken and stupid. I'm also very adamant about someone's right to spend their money on that system. Yes, you're directly supporting and feeding the lifeline of something that's rigged by design and benefits less than 10% of the playerbase(an assumption, but a statistically backed one.) That doesn't mean I'm blind to a developer's/publisher's greed when they build the game to manipulate and thrive off of those willing to invest hundreds or thousands of dollars into the game. It's a short-term cash grab with almost no possibility of sustainability and a disgustingly more common practice for the genre. Really, why would I ask or even expect people not to spend money when that wouldn't benefit anyone?

My initial assumption was based on the previous trend of carries opting to go with sword to Thunder Beast(a very broken skill) their way through dungeons in half the time most other weapons could and all available information pointing to axes being the new dominant factor for boss farming. That would have given Power a monopoly on both single target and group killing speed, along with the simplicity of requiring very little thought for which skill you were going to use next in any given situation. Hence "easy mode." NA server has balances in place to prevent that(to a certain extent) so it's no longer applicable and I admitted as much.

[SupremeTentacle]

I actually think that the NA based balances have left more unbalances.

Previously, players could achieve a total of 200% movement speed. However, we're basically forced to play @ 135% speed. While we can reach 151% if we really wanted to, its not worth it considering how long moon king lasts in our version.

This indirectly leaves dash skills as the only real source of mobility, hence, making TB even more overpowered. It basically provides both incredible single target and mob dps, a large area of effect, and relative mobility...

TB can also be cancelled at any point in time after the initial startup into a guard or attack/skill.

[Cinder]

TB can also be cancelled at any point in time after the initial startup into a guard or attack/skill.

For real? I didn't know that.. I thought thunder beast's big vulnerability (well, not big really.. more like only vulnerability) is being stuck for a moment after it's over and prone to damage, as opposed to being invincible while you're dashing. Pparently not, but oh well <u<

Instead of destroying thunder beast, maybe some other ougis could be buffed to being somewhere near as awesome? Some of them are just awful. Aerial blitz is the slowest thing ever, apparently dark gate is lackluster though I've never tested it.. most of wand's dark skills are lackluster actually, despite all the dark element magatamas and weapons it gets. I don't know much about some of the other lesser used ougis.

[SupremeTentacle]

Here's a list of ougi I think are complete junk

Sword
-None-

Odachi
Dark Tornado, as it's jump has stupid AI that causes the main slash, which does a good chunk of the skills damage, to miss completely.

Axe
Same as Odachi

Spear
Tidal wave is junk unless you do so much damage you can kill them in 2-3 ticks of it due to the fact that they can casually walk out.

Staff
-None-

Wand
Dark Gate has like 1 damage, and everything takes too much sp.

Bow
-Everything, due to lack of damage and junk cast speed-

Twins
Initially thought Fuujin's was shit, but after wasting a few ougi cards and testing it vs TB, I decided its super guud

[Ryxa]

Here's a list of ougi I think are complete junk

Sword
-None-

Blast Smash is junk. Phoenix Slash does very slightly higher damage on same skill level. Thunderbeast + TSB is better for mob clear due to lack of mobility/cancelability in Blast Smash.

Odachi
Dark Tornado, as it's jump has stupid AI that causes the main slash, which does a good chunk of the skills damage, to miss completely.

Not hard to control.

Axe
Same as Odachi

Spear
Tidal wave is junk unless you do so much damage you can kill them in 2-3 ticks of it due to the fact that they can casually walk out.

Staff
-None-

Wand
Dark Gate has like 1 damage, and everything takes too much sp.

Bow
-Everything, due to lack of damage and junk cast speed-

Twins
Initially thought Fuujin's was shit, but after wasting a few ougi cards and testing it vs TB, I decided its super guud

I still think you're high and overweighting what you're getting on first impression.

[SupremeTentacle]

Sure my first impression was a bit overboard, but think about it.

Fuujins Rank 5
50% wind
50% slice
378 SF @ Max.

SF is per click and hence, the total SF is 1134. Note that the two ticks constitute a click.

To compare
TB rank 5
30% slice
70% lightning
291 SF @ Max

SF is per bolt

On a small enemy, 2 bolts will typically hit. Note that each bolt ticks several times and its rather obnoxious to count the number of bolts that hit a target.

Both skills carry 50% multihit element.

Assuming that a monster carry the same resistance, in order to do the same amount of damage, TB has to hit 3.9 bolts. In order to out damage it, 4 bolts have to land.

However, this changes at rank 6, where Fuujins actually does not really see an improvement in its overall damage - in fact, it merely becomes less powerful as it totals 1184 SF, a mere 50 SF up on the rank 5. The reason I say that its less powerful is that the SF is spread over a larger number of microdashes. On the other hand, TB becomes more powerful, gaining 70 SF per bolt.

However, 3.2 bolts are still required to land to deal the same damage to a single target.

Although TB > FCD in a mob, FCD is much better on single smaller targets often encountered in edo, such as frogs. It also gives more leeway as a mobility skill, and overall allows for slightly slower movement, but much better control due to the ability to change distances, and the dash being separated into smaller parts. In Edo, mobs are much smaller, allowing for better use of single target bursting skills such as FCD. FCD also does not proc the lightning resist that many of the edo bosses carry.

However, I'm not saying that FCD > TB in the general case. One does not simply replace an almost 20m dash with 3 slower 5m dashes.

While TB will often hit much harder on larger targets, in the current content cap, FCD offers many things that TB does not, and I wouldn't say that its a mistake to take at least one of it. It seems like it would be a better follow up to TB than TSB is, as it also provides you with the option to escape after finishing off a monster you left with low hp. Although this may not seem like a problem to you, I'd like to remind you that a certain TS player we grind with often complains about leaving mobs with very low HP after a TB.

Comparing both to TSB's 485 SF @ rank 5 max, and 605 SF @ rank 6 max makes TSB look rather pathetic in comparison to both skills on a single target basis, but serves as a good mob tool. One would quite literally need two TSBs to match a FCD in terms of damage on a single monster.

Based on that, the skill seems to serve a niche that matches pretty well with the fast paced TS playstyle, and would have good synergy with a kit that includes other burst and mobility skills, such as CCC, TB, etc.

(Consider a weapon that has CCC 7, Lightning 7, some other random rank 7 skill, and the ougi TB/FCD. The in - kill - next target potential there is insane.)