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[Revised] Increase your damage output as much as 50%!!!

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Re: Increase your damage output as much as 50%!!!

Postby Jebe » 24 Nov 2014, 09:39

I put space in, so it is easier to read. And for your information, I work and earn money from my programming skill as independent developer for almost 20 years (Yeah you are right, I'm an old man). Mainly I build web application stuff for companies. I know you are a proud player from Onigiri, but stop claiming what I write is somekind of bullsh*t.. You just don't know how the system really works yet claim to know somehow. I don't want my thread to be a flame war. If you don't aggree with my post, you already stating it very LOUD and CLEAR. Stop it and move on. You should have thanked me for the information I gave out.. not to be angry cause of IMO your 'wrong pick' medium size char for your new AXE weapon. Direct your emotion elsewhere.. If you have nothing to gain here in this thread, you don't have to read it.

I'm too lazy to prove body size works like I mentioned or not.. If someone wants to do it, try it before you troll in here and cause a ruckus. There still many things to unfold and you all yet to see......

SupremeTentacle wrote:Magic damage does not invoke either mind or wis, in fact, it does not directly invoke either of them. For fuck's sake, do you even know what an "int" is?

INT means intelligence here, if you played enough MMO, you should know this.

SupremeTentacle wrote:Everything you've posted besides the guard percentages is COMPLETE nonsense.

No matter how many times you edit your post, you're still completely wrong on almost everything there.

You are just ignorant and arrogant, but still a skilled player which I envy ;p. I don't have luxurious time to play like you, but seriously won't put my little precious time to post something as misleading people as fellow player. Like I said you just don't know, and I demand apology later if you see the truth in my post.

SupremeTentacle wrote:There is no % defense stat.

If you don't know, please kindly ask. That's what the forum used for. Don't just blabbering that my post is wrong. Where did I mention % defense stat anyway? If you're talking about defense bonus rate.. that's the bonus that defender get, if the defender def stat, which in this particular: physical def stat, is at certain amount
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Re: Increase your damage output as much as 50%!!!

Postby SupremeTentacle » 24 Nov 2014, 14:20

Jebe wrote:I put space in, so it is easier to read. And for your information, I work and earn money from my programming skill as independent developer for almost 20 years (Yeah you are right, I'm an old man). Mainly I build web application stuff for companies. I know you are a proud player from Onigiri, but stop claiming what I write is somekind of bullsh*t..

Oh no, you can code. You're not the only one.

You just don't know how the system really works yet claim to know somehow.

Go test it, or probe around with your decompiler some more, though I'm fairly certain this is bannable. That stat is not actually used. If you've done any sort of test whatsoever, you'd realize that you're pretty much wrong. If I was to guess, I'd say it's likely code that was from pre-alpha phases of the game that was left in.

I don't want my thread to be a flame war. If you don't aggree with my post, you already stating it very LOUD and CLEAR. Stop it and move on. You should have thanked me for the information I gave out.. not to be angry cause of IMO your 'wrong pick' medium size char for your new AXE weapon. Direct your emotion elsewhere.. If you have nothing to gain here in this thread, you don't have to read it.

It's not about a flame war, it's the fact that you have not used your brain at all. You've literally taken the code for a structure-type object and made assumptions about the uses the instances variables inside of said structure.

I'm too lazy to prove body size works like I mentioned or not.. If someone wants to do it, try it before you troll in here and cause a ruckus. There still many things to unfold and you all yet to see......

SupremeTentacle wrote:Magic damage does not invoke either mind or wis, in fact, it does not directly invoke either of them. For fuck's sake, do you even know what an "int" is?

INT means intelligence here, if you played enough MMO, you should know this.

According to a little birdie who has access to the same things you do, this game refers to the WIS stat as INT in some of the files. Note that your damage formula is also pretty likely to be off seeing as how stun refers to the KB amount (And not the actual stun effect)

SupremeTentacle wrote:Everything you've posted besides the guard percentages is COMPLETE nonsense.

No matter how many times you edit your post, you're still completely wrong on almost everything there.

You are just ignorant and arrogant, but still a skilled player which I envy ;p. I don't have luxurious time to play like you, but seriously won't put my little precious time to post something as misleading people as fellow player. Like I said you just don't know, and I demand apology later if you see the truth in my post.

Yes, I'm arrogant. However, I'm not ignorant. I do double check things.

SupremeTentacle wrote:There is no % defense stat.

If you don't know, please kindly ask. That's what the forum used for. Don't just blabbering that my post is wrong. Where did I mention % defense stat anyway? If you're talking about defense bonus rate.. that's the bonus that defender get, if the defender def stat, which in this particular: physical def stat, is at certain amount

This.

Image




Fine, whatever, you have good intentions - but before you actually post, go confirm your hypothesis. Unfortunately, web applications work differently from most video games. Chunks of unused code are left in simply because one of the developers had an idea they thought was good - but was not. This is especially true about structures.

They don't bother commenting it because it has no negative effect on the flow of the game seeing as how none of the parameters are referenced by a method.
Last edited by SupremeTentacle on 24 Nov 2014, 16:47, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Increase your damage output as much as 50%!!!

Postby Ryxa » 24 Nov 2014, 15:02

I will tell you this much... I have had a peek at some parts of the game code (Though I won't disclose any of it), and not ONE of the codes you provided is part of what I saw. As others have pointed out, there aren't even 5 body sizes, and your topic title of "50%" isn't even true either as the highest difference you gave was 30%... which was a negative. The only positive gain according to you is a 20%.

To further prove you wrong, Rhythm uses the average body size (Medium according to you, I suppose?),and I use the young girl (Tiny?). When we use the EXACT SAME SPEAR with the EXACT SAME MAGATAMA with the EXACT SAME AFFINITY and the NEARLY THE SAME skill level, he still did slightly more than I did... due to the level difference in the skills. According to you, he should be gaining 0% bonus and I would be gaining 20% bonus damage.

Jebe wrote:I work and earn money from my programming skill as independent developer for almost 20 years

Jebe wrote:INT means intelligence here, if you played enough MMO, you should know this.

INT isn't used. In fact, INT was never even referenced once in anything I've seen.

Jebe wrote:I'm too lazy to prove body size works like I mentioned or not.. If someone wants to do it, try it before you troll in here and cause a ruckus.

Been there, done that. Not true. I've done all 4 body sizes across 7 or 8 different characters for each of the closed alpha/open alpha/closed beta/open beta and official releases in both EN and JP except for the first closed beta of JP.

Edit: Took a look at something else and what you have is in the code... but the thing is... it's not referenced else where (Specifically in the damage and healing formulas) meaning it's not used. At all.
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Re: Increase your damage output as much as 50%!!!

Postby Jebe » 24 Nov 2014, 18:01

Ryxa you can go check it again if you can ;p... There still a lot more yet not covered by my initial post, that's why I put a subtitle 'Partial Damage Calculation'. There are still things that I still need to check. I haven't put any correlation for attributes such as elemental damage.

For SupremeTentacle, in my post I said 'Damage cut off rate', it's just my saying for attenuation attack power. And for the INT thing, as my table at the lowest part explain exactly the same thing as you said, it's not really affecting your magic output and furthermore I said that atk power which is magical type get cut off by 30% early in damage calculation. The main story about this magic part which I'm trying to disclose for you all is 'no matter which road (stats) you follow' you can wield wand or staff for pretty much the same damage output whether you only have as tiny as 10 WIS or as much as 200 WIS doesn't matter at all.

I played games as early an era of MUD. I played and even contributing codes for couple of code base. It's a text based, yes, not a graphical one. I don't have talent in art and really not into touching the 3D modelling stuff. Anyway the basic stays the same, only the business rules changed from one game to another... and a big no no if you say I don't understand the stuff I got into.. Chunks of unused code? You are just kidding me...

If you think Onigiri's developer is lazy commenting.. let me say this, this game is not a single person effort, which means there are others who take care different parts of the module. And one can sick or just quitting one's job, which means need another developer to continue his/her left over work. It's a common and good practice for developers to decorate their code with comments, pretty much the intention of variables, functions, enums, class etc. So if sh*t happens, someone could clearly see the intention of the creator and can continue doing the job instead of write over from beginning...

I disclose only the game behaviour which I believe no direct nor indirect damage to Onigiri's developer or publisher. There is no gain in my side by delivering this info, only to help you guys understand some of the mechanic of the game, some "what's behind the scene". If you don't believe the body size part, then fine.. skip it, you can still read the rest and agree to whatever still make sense to you.

What probably misleading is my thread title.. but that title is something that get you all to read this. Here again, since you all just accusing body size don't work as it supposed it would, I'll try to explain it to you.

Attack power = 20,000
Assume player A with the 20% bonus body size and player B with no bonus from body size attacking low level mob
Since the mob is low level, we can ignore the defense
A is attacking for 24,000 damage
B is attacking for 20,000 damage
Difference = 4,000

Assuming mob with 20,000 def
Def to attack ratio is 100% which means there will be atk power cut off rate around 55% (look from my table)
A is attacking for 13,200 damage
B is attacking for 11,000 damage
Difference = 1,200

Assuming mob with 100,000 def
Def to attack ratio is 500%, which means atk power cut off rate around 25%
A is attacking for 6,000 damage
B is attacking for 5,000 damage
Difference = 1,000

Damage ratio between A and B player is still maintained at 20% but the disparity of damage output is becoming closer. And that's maybe, why you say it is not working. I may suggest you try low level mob hitting instead.

By using my table, you can also guessing your current mob defense by comparing your damage output to low level mob. But remember my damage calculation is still incomplete, there are still things not yet included
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Re: Increase your damage output as much as 50%!!!

Postby Tekato » 24 Nov 2014, 20:29

Jebe wrote:Ryxa you can go check it again if you can ;p... There still a lot more yet not covered by my initial post, that's why I put a subtitle 'Partial Damage Calculation'. There are still things that I still need to check. I haven't put any correlation for attributes such as elemental damage.

For SupremeTentacle, in my post I said 'Damage cut off rate', it's just my saying for attenuation attack power. And for the INT thing, as my table at the lowest part explain exactly the same thing as you said, it's not really affecting your magic output and furthermore I said that atk power which is magical type get cut off by 30% early in damage calculation. The main story about this magic part which I'm trying to disclose for you all is 'no matter which road (stats) you follow' you can wield wand or staff for pretty much the same damage output whether you only have as tiny as 10 WIS or as much as 200 WIS doesn't matter at all.

I played games as early an era of MUD. I played and even contributing codes for couple of code base. It's a text based, yes, not a graphical one. I don't have talent in art and really not into touching the 3D modelling stuff. Anyway the basic stays the same, only the business rules changed from one game to another... and a big no no if you say I don't understand the stuff I got into.. Chunks of unused code? You are just kidding me...

If you think Onigiri's developer is lazy commenting.. let me say this, this game is not a single person effort, which means there are others who take care different parts of the module. And one can sick or just quitting one's job, which means need another developer to continue his/her left over work. It's a common and good practice for developers to decorate their code with comments, pretty much the intention of variables, functions, enums, class etc. So if sh*t happens, someone could clearly see the intention of the creator and can continue doing the job instead of write over from beginning...

I disclose only the game behaviour which I believe no direct nor indirect damage to Onigiri's developer or publisher. There is no gain in my side by delivering this info, only to help you guys understand some of the mechanic of the game, some "what's behind the scene". If you don't believe the body size part, then fine.. skip it, you can still read the rest and agree to whatever still make sense to you.

What probably misleading is my thread title.. but that title is something that get you all to read this. Here again, since you all just accusing body size don't work as it supposed it would, I'll try to explain it to you.

Attack power = 20,000
Assume player A with the 20% bonus body size and player B with no bonus from body size attacking low level mob
Since the mob is low level, we can ignore the defense
A is attacking for 24,000 damage
B is attacking for 20,000 damage
Difference = 4,000

Assuming mob with 20,000 def
Def to attack ratio is 100% which means there will be atk power cut off rate around 55% (look from my table)
A is attacking for 13,200 damage
B is attacking for 11,000 damage
Difference = 1,200

Assuming mob with 100,000 def
Def to attack ratio is 500%, which means atk power cut off rate around 25%
A is attacking for 6,000 damage
B is attacking for 5,000 damage
Difference = 1,000

Damage ratio between A and B player is still maintained at 20% but the disparity of damage output is becoming closer. And that's maybe, why you say it is not working. I may suggest you try low level mob hitting instead.

By using my table, you can also guessing your current mob defense by comparing your damage output to low level mob. But remember my damage calculation is still incomplete, there are still things not yet included

You should just stap before you make yourself sound even more retarded ... if that's even possible LOL
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Re: Increase your damage output as much as 50%!!!

Postby AtmaMoogle » 24 Nov 2014, 20:31

The main story about this magic part which I'm trying to disclose for you all is 'no matter which road (stats) you follow' you can wield wand or staff for pretty much the same damage output whether you only have as tiny as 10 WIS or as much as 200 WIS doesn't matter at all.


Image

So what you're telling me that, having absolute shit for affinity is still going to put me on the same tier of damage as someone with max affinity. Ha, ha, ha, you already don't know the basic concept of building your character in the game.
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Re: Increase your damage output as much as 50%!!!

Postby Jebe » 24 Nov 2014, 22:05

I haven't touch the affinity part yet, coz affinity (weapon power limit) is related to weapon section. Affinity is capped at 3000 for lv <100. 3000+(lv-100)*100 for lv <=110 and 4000 + (lv-110)*400 for 111 and up. Currently max affinity cap is at 30k, which is unattainable by a lv cap for current content at 115.

I never said it was done.. only a part of big compilation of damage calculations.
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Re: Increase your damage output as much as 50%!!!

Postby Dark Deceiver » 25 Nov 2014, 00:52

Jebe wrote: I'm too lazy to prove body size works like I mentioned or not.


How convenient.
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Re: Increase your damage output as much as 50%!!!

Postby SupremeTentacle » 25 Nov 2014, 03:43

Jebe wrote:Ryxa you can go check it again if you can ;p... There still a lot more yet not covered by my initial post, that's why I put a subtitle 'Partial Damage Calculation'. There are still things that I still need to check. I haven't put any correlation for attributes such as elemental damage.

For SupremeTentacle, in my post I said 'Damage cut off rate', it's just my saying for attenuation attack power. And for the INT thing, as my table at the lowest part explain exactly the same thing as you said, it's not really affecting your magic output and furthermore I said that atk power which is magical type get cut off by 30% early in damage calculation. The main story about this magic part which I'm trying to disclose for you all is 'no matter which road (stats) you follow' you can wield wand or staff for pretty much the same damage output whether you only have as tiny as 10 WIS or as much as 200 WIS doesn't matter at all.

No. Like you said in a post later, you're completely missing the affinity factor - which means that no, you can't do the same amount of damage since there is a stat that affects total attack which relies directly on wisdom or mind depending on which of the two magical weapons you're using. Since all affinity increases are percentage based as opposed to flat, it'snot possible to get affinity without building wisdom, which implies that it's possible to increase damage by getting wisdom. Again, think things through before speaking.

An affinity cap of 30k would only serve to support this, as it implies that the player will always obtain more damage by adding additional points in wisdom...


I played games as early an era of MUD. I played and even contributing codes for couple of code base. It's a text based, yes, not a graphical one. I don't have talent in art and really not into touching the 3D modelling stuff. Anyway the basic stays the same, only the business rules changed from one game to another... and a big no no if you say I don't understand the stuff I got into.. Chunks of unused code? You are just kidding me...

If you think Onigiri's developer is lazy commenting.. let me say this, this game is not a single person effort, which means there are others who take care different parts of the module. And one can sick or just quitting one's job, which means need another developer to continue his/her left over work. It's a common and good practice for developers to decorate their code with comments, pretty much the intention of variables, functions, enums, class etc. So if sh*t happens, someone could clearly see the intention of the creator and can continue doing the job instead of write over from beginning...

Chunks of unused code happens. Poor style also happens. Again, let's just say I've magically obtained this information "from a little birdie", but you will find things with ridiculous variables that are totally left uncommented in some of the files. There's also an unreasonable amount of overrides that don't have any comments to explain them. other than "//override". It's an undeniable fact that large portions of the code are not well documented.

Now what is an override? It's redefining a method such that the newer method definition is used in place of the old one. Although the old method can be called, it often goes almost completely unused - especially when no one really knows the difference between the old and original methods due to poor style. It's not like every new programmer who joins the project is going to check out the original method either. Since apparently you are one, I'm sure you'd understand that there are times where you ask someone else if there's any use for the original method, and you don't bother to look further when you realize that there isn't. So, what does this old method become? Unused code. This applies to object oriented programming in general, and not just Onigiri.


I disclose only the game behaviour which I believe no direct nor indirect damage to Onigiri's developer or publisher. There is no gain in my side by delivering this info, only to help you guys understand some of the mechanic of the game, some "what's behind the scene". If you don't believe the body size part, then fine.. skip it, you can still read the rest and agree to whatever still make sense to you.

What probably misleading is my thread title.. but that title is something that get you all to read this. Here again, since you all just accusing body size don't work as it supposed it would, I'll try to explain it to you.

Attack power = 20,000
Assume player A with the 20% bonus body size and player B with no bonus from body size attacking low level mob
Since the mob is low level, we can ignore the defense
A is attacking for 24,000 damage
B is attacking for 20,000 damage
Difference = 4,000

Assuming mob with 20,000 def
Def to attack ratio is 100% which means there will be atk power cut off rate around 55% (look from my table)
A is attacking for 13,200 damage
B is attacking for 11,000 damage
Difference = 1,200

Assuming mob with 100,000 def
Def to attack ratio is 500%, which means atk power cut off rate around 25%
A is attacking for 6,000 damage
B is attacking for 5,000 damage
Difference = 1,000

Damage ratio between A and B player is still maintained at 20% but the disparity of damage output is becoming closer. And that's maybe, why you say it is not working. I may suggest you try low level mob hitting instead.

The damage test was done with a full set of fully ornamented magatama, as well as the weapon "Genobuster." The exact same setup was transferred between the accounts. The numbers that were being dealt were in the hundreds of thousands. You're saying that it works. We're saying that we've already tested and it doesn't. In a scenario where an individual presents a new idea, normally said individual also has to offer evidence.

In the first place, according to your own formula, the damage disparity is less than 20%, seeing as how you at a 1 to the rate....Assuming average -> tiny comparison, you'd be dividing (1 + 100%) = 2 by (1 + 120%) = 2.2. According to your OWN formula, you'd get a 10% difference as opposed to a 20.


By using my table, you can also guessing your current mob defense by comparing your damage output to low level mob. But remember my damage calculation is still incomplete, there are still things not yet included

Go find the actual formula instead of playing around with numbers you speculate are used.

Though, I will admit your HP formula is accurate.
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Re: Increase your damage output as much as 50%!!!

Postby Jebe » 25 Nov 2014, 05:06

I'm ashamed but must admit, you guys are right for body size.. after countless moving through tons of lines until my eyes are hurt... I can't find body size is ever linked up to avatar creation.. The think I found is, Mobs got body size value.. which range from small to big. Only 1 creature has small body size, others have either medium or big. I think the body size table I found is working the other way around... I'm really sorry.

I think it is like this, for eg. your enemy is Satan which has Big body size. If your weapon axe/ odachi, you will gain 10% atk power value; for bow and spear -20%; for twin -10%; and the rest get no gain.

I just hope you guys will give me encouragement or something like constructive criticism. Even to type this all in English, I am having much time to finish it. I even tried giving you tables which should be pretty easy to understand rather than some hard math equation like one in coding....

Again.. sorry
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