Onigiri's Sustainability - An Analysis of Playerbase Decline

[Sheiko]

Changes won't be coming, it consumes time, effort and money. to me this will be successful if they put the console version of this game might beat dc universe on ps4.

are you guys the only one playing this? you guys should pm each other if you don't want others input on the thread, and oh might as well sugarcoat it so that you wont see it as a flamer

Is this thread really tht funny for u to kept on usin tht emotes >.>;;
All i see on the post u made with all those emotes are all rages not based on majority opinions...
Indeed even i'm not satisfied with the Onigiri's gameplay.(Why do u think they make this thread?)
But why ps4, u think everyone hav ps4?
Duh, everyone knows pc is on the rage these days.(Online games)
You are the one who's botherin this thread with non-related topics.

[Synd.]

Considering it's Cyberstep, I wouldn't expect anything big. ~~This one's long, Onee-chan!~
If they're going to fix something, or even consider "fixing" it, it needs to be small and quick.

About leeching and teamwork, the fastest way to make the team effort come out would more than likely be to not increase enemy damage, but to increase the enemy's defense and HP, possibly lower their damage slighty, so a single carry will take a moment to take out each enemy and to clear it faster, would need the group to strike the same enemy(ies) to deplete the HP gauge fast.

That could take the fun out of it, though, as some people don't like slower-paced "drain this things HP and prevent yours from draining" action.


I feel that we're getting 60% of Japanese experience, though, I'd want an increase too, yet I don't know how or in which way.
They should really do something about mages, such as once you hit 50 in a stat, Mnd or Wis, you'll get a +4%~10% bonus in SP.
And for Vit at 50, would get a +4%~10% HP (Perhaps defense?) increase. This could possibly also do the same at 100, making the run for 100 in one stat worth one's while. (Please, keep in mind, it does not have to be on 50, might as well happen every 30 of one stat, giving you the same thing 3 times when you've gotten to 90.)
Also, increasing staff spell cost by a minimal yet noticable amount, might also make it a bit more "fluent."

I kind of feel, that if we were to demand too big of a change, that a reset would have to be rolled out, due to the massive changes. ~It's just a feeling.~

I've always thought about more skills, which led me to thinking about combining Ougi's, turning them into (I'll call it Omni, because I've no specific creativity) Omni Skills, allowing one of the 3 slots on a weapon, (non-Ougi) to be "gambled away" in the way of attaching skills... (With that rather strange 33.33% chance that seems to be aiming for the higher rank skills T3T)
My idea of Omni is basically a huge MultiHit Ougi, replacing a regular slot. Maybe the animation for wands would be a "spirit-like" stance, making several Hellfires fire out. (I've no idea where. *Cough*)
I'd love to see someone spin their spear in a tornado, having the sharp edge scratching the ground, creating significant heat... Supposedly creating a unique Block Skill...? Hmph? Too much work? Probably.

Dual wield spears! Because! Would look sweet. I've no idea. So cool. ~Super serious.~

Regarding the Accessory charge, it seems somewhat easy to implement. Sounds like 40c~80c per recharge to me.

Wands can't block... c-can't b-block... V-Votoole... I... failed... Typhon 3 Stronk 5 Me. ;_; ~

I really like the idea of having GMs around "physically", even if they're just standing there, not moving or typing. +1

Weak points would be amazing, however, it does seem like a decent chunk of work.

There are 3 other warps after Edo, I suppose. I hope to see a human boss there, representing "you", one who uses lots of Ougi skills as their "main attacks." and even has "player-looking artificial intelligence" behind it, acting like its support! Maybe fighting yourself in the past! (as artificial intelligence, in your costume and using your main weapon.) ...Sugoi... *Cough-cough* Just not as boring as the one in Yellow Dragon Spire, those guys moonwalked sideways and would sometimes just stand there, staring at you... (I want Oppen-like movement.) Oppey-kun! QwQ

That's all I had to say, whether it was utter-garbage or not, I can't trully tell, as this is an opinion/thought of how it could change.

~Wall of Text! (TwT)

[SupremeTentacle]

Considering it's Cyberstep, I wouldn't expect anything big. ~~This one's long, Onee-chan!~
If they're going to fix something, or even consider "fixing" it, it needs to be small and quick.

About leeching and teamwork, the fastest way to make the team effort come out would more than likely be to not increase enemy damage, but to increase the enemy's defense and HP, possibly lower their damage slighty, so a single carry will take a moment to take out each enemy and to clear it faster, would need the group to strike the same enemy(ies) to deplete the HP gauge fast.

I see your point here, and I think that its a pretty good idea to have pretty big defensive buffs to monsters, especially on the harder difficulties. However, I don't really agree with the damage nerfs on monsters, but that's just my bias towards difficulty. Lowering monster damage would definitely give healers more of a place than they currently do, especially if a better targeting system is placed in the game.

That could take the fun out of it, though, as some people don't like slower-paced "drain this things HP and prevent yours from draining" action.


I feel that we're getting 60% of Japanese experience, though, I'd want an increase too, yet I don't know how or in which way.

We're getting 20% - confirmed.

They should really do something about mages, such as once you hit 50 in a stat, Mnd or Wis, you'll get a +4%~10% bonus in SP.
And for Vit at 50, would get a +4%~10% HP (Perhaps defense?) increase. This could possibly also do the same at 100, making the run for 100 in one stat worth one's while. (Please, keep in mind, it does not have to be on 50, might as well happen every 30 of one stat, giving you the same thing 3 times when you've gotten to 90.)
Also, increasing staff spell cost by a minimal yet noticable amount, might also make it a bit more "fluent."

I don't understand what you mean by staff spell cost - but I do agree with the increase in max sp pool resulting from adding in a certain amount of wisdom or mind - that seems like it would be a nice way to address some of the mana issues that mages are currently experiencing, especially since regeneration appears to be based off of max pool

I kind of feel, that if we were to demand too big of a change, that a reset would have to be rolled out, due to the massive changes. ~It's just a feeling.~

I've always thought about more skills, which led me to thinking about combining Ougi's, turning them into (I'll call it Omni, because I've no specific creativity) Omni Skills, allowing one of the 3 slots on a weapon, (non-Ougi) to be "gambled away" in the way of attaching skills... (With that rather strange 33.33% chance that seems to be aiming for the higher rank skills T3T)
My idea of Omni is basically a huge MultiHit Ougi, replacing a regular slot. Maybe the animation for wands would be a "spirit-like" stance, making several Hellfires fire out. (I've no idea where. *Cough*)
I'd love to see someone spin their spear in a tornado, having the sharp edge scratching the ground, creating significant heat... Supposedly creating a unique Block Skill...? Hmph? Too much work? Probably.

Dual wield spears! Because! Would look sweet. I've no idea. So cool. ~Super serious.~

Regarding the Accessory charge, it seems somewhat easy to implement. Sounds like 40c~80c per recharge to me.

Wands can't block... c-can't b-block... V-Votoole... I... failed... Typhon 3 Stronk 5 Me. ;_; ~

I really like the idea of having GMs around "physically", even if they're just standing there, not moving or typing. +1

Weak points would be amazing, however, it does seem like a decent chunk of work.

There are 3 other warps after Edo, I suppose. I hope to see a human boss there, representing "you", one who uses lots of Ougi skills as their "main attacks." and even has "player-looking artificial intelligence" behind it, acting like its support! Maybe fighting yourself in the past! (as artificial intelligence, in your costume and using your main weapon.) ...Sugoi... *Cough-cough* Just not as boring as the one in Yellow Dragon Spire, those guys moonwalked sideways and would sometimes just stand there, staring at you... (I want Oppen-like movement.) Oppey-kun! QwQ

It would be nice if, when we progressed through content, those gaps in the AI got filled, and they became more and more lifelike.

That's all I had to say, whether it was utter-garbage or not, I can't trully tell, as this is an opinion/thought of how it could change.

It was actually some legit discussion and insight~ Thanks for your input.

~Wall of Text! (TwT)

[Lynneth]

So. A lot of people KEEP REPEATING what we addressed already. If you don't intend on sitting down and taking it seriously enough to just listen to what we have, you might as well not post. I know the video is long (57 minutes), but we discuss one topic for at least 5 minutes each. Just skim through it. Many of the comments that people have posted are the typical complaints every player has had... and we've already gone ahead and discussed this like I said. It's a nuisance seeing the same thing over and over and I'm pretty sure that doing so will not get anything changed.

Some posts seem to be fairly biased as well. Instead of basing your opinions on what the general meta is (Which, as of now, is mainly spear and a few power or dex builds), please try out every weapon type ON A NEW CHARACTER until level 60 or so. Skill levels will scale this way and you really start to understand how a class plays and its strengths and weaknesses.

This next section is in direct response to Lynneth:
Many of your suggestions would make players stronger. I am completely against this idea and I believe many people in my group are as well. This game, as of now, is actually too easy. With low exp rate and easy to clear dungeons, many players blaze through the game only to find themselves unable to continue later on. I propose that exp rate be increased from x.20 of JP's rate to x.30 or x.40 and that dungeon difficulty and monster stats be increased to compensate. This will make a dungeon clear feel much more rewarding and reduce the feeling of repetitive grinding there is in the game.

On a side note: Audio quality wasn't the best and I'll manipulate it a bit if we intend to do this again at some point. This was our first time attempting something like this and I'm thinking it might be a decent idea to include more of the community in the discussion next time (Either through in game chat or twitch chat).

I also make this direct response to you Ryxa,

Because, have you ever played full support with Staff and wand with WIS? I bet you haven't or at least not until lv.60 yet.

While I have spear-type build with Full VIT which has the most enjoyable experience.

Anyway, I don't have time to listen to your rambling either or has the will to, I just need the summary of it, and you fail to provide that, and I bet everyone wouldn't just listen to your rambling for one hour.

I appreciate and respect Rhythm greatly because he listened to me and made a clear point of it, and he has played wand/WIS character too.

======================

What this game needs are how support player is rewarded equally and given proper skills, same with Wand which has ridiculous SP consumption, and the popular counter argument : 'With enough WIS, your SP is okay, etc, etc'' just doesn't work. You will need lots of +100 wands to effectively use the ridiculous SP amount, especially at lower level.

Basically, if you want to enjoy this game, create a spear-character with VIT, or sword with full POW, and then RESET to your desired play-style at level 80, at least to make Wand/Staff enjoyable experience.

[Ryxa]

I also make this direct response to you Ryxa,

Because, have you ever played full support with Staff and wand with WIS? I bet you haven't or at least not until lv.60 yet.

I did so in JP Onigiri (lv. 57 and finished Kaga but I did not progress after this) and I have a feel for what it's like in EN as well.

While I have spear-type build with Full VIT which has the most enjoyable experience.

Anyway, I don't have time to listen to your rambling either or has the will to, I just need the summary of it, and you fail to provide that, and I bet everyone wouldn't just listen to your rambling for one hour.

I appreciate and respect Rhythm greatly because he listened to me and made a clear point of it, and he has played wand/WIS character too.

This "Rambling" was not just my own. There were various other people there including Rhythm. His wand also did not make it past level 40 because at that point he used a status reset and began to play Oodachi. I know because we leveled our alts together along with Akatsuki Kai/Mrs. Cute. His opinion on wand/WIS characters is no better nor worse than mine. I also never specifically called out wand players nor staff players. I'm not sure where you obtained this assumption from. If you want my viewpoint on wis/mnd character, I think they could do with a buff, but like Rhythm, I'm certain that their role in the game right now is not as weak as people believe. A few SP consumption tweaks and perhaps range/cooldown/cast speed would potentially solve the issue.

If you want a real opinion on wands and staves, ask Akatsuki/Cute. The only things he really complains about anyways are SP consumption and the difficulty required in positioning for spells.

======================

What this game needs are how support player is rewarded equally and given proper skills, same with Wand which has ridiculous SP consumption, and the popular counter argument : 'With enough WIS, your SP is okay, etc, etc'' just doesn't work. You will need lots of +100 wands to effectively use the ridiculous SP amount, especially at lower level.

I already know this as I have a full wis/mnd character in JP. I'm not really sure how this specific comment on wands and staves relates to my comment about the state of the game in general. Every player requires multiple, MULTIPLE high tier weapons due to durability restrictions in the first place. I will agree that support players need more compensation of some sort, but how to go about implementing this is difficult. There was an entire thread about how "Staff users are the worst in the game" or something along those lines and they discussed this topic enough in there. It is not an issue that has not been brought up before.

Basically, if you want to enjoy this game, create a spear-character with VIT, or sword with full POW, and then RESET to your desired play-style at level 80, at least to make Wand/Staff enjoyable experience.

If you want to enjoy the game, just play what you want to play. I personally switched around classes quite a bit and what I'm comfortable most with is sword. I've played Axe/Spear/Staff/Wand/Twin and Bow at some point throughout the 4 different alphas and betas as well as in JP Onigiri. I know a few people who actually like to support despite its drawbacks and I've seen how strong some wand users can become. If the class frustrates you to the point you're going to be unable to draw out its full potential and enjoy it, you should really just switch classes. It's not worth the stress.

I'm not sure why, but you seem fairly hostile towards me as of right now. I'm not certain whether this is due to frustrations about class and balance or if your tone currently is intentional. I know I can sound like a prick and know-it-all but I did not intend to offend you in any way. I'm just looking to have an intellectual discussion about the state of the game since, as everyone can tell, it's not the best right now.

[Tekato]

The ridiculous amount of times i've crashed from smelthing and enhancing is making me consider giving up on this game ...

[Gravedigger]

I think it would be interesting to make maps larger. And I don't mean endurance wise like making the maps longer (multiple floors) or spamming enemies. I am referring to something like Shinoda. You know, those good old days when everyone tried to pitch in? To be fair, 9 times out of 10, the highest level would have to come back and clear both the right and left sides, but the others really did try their best. It was fun to see people participate, branch off into smaller groups, and then rendezvous later on. It's mostly endurance now, and it really just takes a few weapons, and right clicking your way to victory. I'm sure if people with thunder beast didn't have to change weapons, they could just hold down the right mouse button through the level.

The rank 7 skills are mostly there for aesthetic purposes. I am truly curious, how often does one need to use those? Ougis are literally game changers. I think dropping the required amount of SP to use normal skills would be good. There isn't much of a use for crimson cross cut if the smash blast thing does the job better, even if it's just one enemy. As a solo player after Shinoda, leveling is tough. Without support, I have to manage my SP carefully, which may hinder me depending on how you look at it. I use magatamas that cater to rank V+ skills, and not VI+. Why? Well, skills like crimson cross at rank V take 67 SP, while Rank VII takes 108. That is absurd. Rank VI spirit blast and thunder blast cost less than that. Before you comment and say "duh", the ranks are different, it's the principle that counts. At max level, crimson cross cut rank VII has a max SF of 329 while a max thunder beast rank VI has 361. At less SP and more damage, what it the point of using that move? I would much rather use a rank V version of the skill since it still gets the job done (meaning I use normal skills for individual monsters) at a much less SP cost. Making these skills cost less SP makes the game have a less of that "Pay to win" feel. Although spears get that fancy WDS....

[Otonashi]

I think it would be interesting to make maps larger. And I don't mean endurance wise like making the maps longer (multiple floors) or spamming enemies. I am referring to something like Shinoda. You know, those good old days when everyone tried to pitch in? To be fair, 9 times out of 10, the highest level would have to come back and clear both the right and left sides, but the others really did try their best. It was fun to see people participate, branch off into smaller groups, and then rendezvous later on. It's mostly endurance now, and it really just takes a few weapons, and right clicking your way to victory. I'm sure if people with thunder beast didn't have to change weapons, they could just hold down the right mouse button through the level.
I agree, but what would really be nice is if there were dungeons that catered to the different playstyles. I think Kyoto is a prime example of this, with Shinoda Forest for parties, Gedoumaru's Hideout for AoE "classes", Yakumo Temple for solo players and single target damage "classes".

The rank 7 skills are mostly there for aesthetic purposes. I am truly curious, how often does one need to use those? Ougis are literally game changers. I think dropping the required amount of SP to use normal skills would be good. There isn't much of a use for crimson cross cut if the smash blast thing does the job better, even if it's just one enemy. As a solo player after Shinoda, leveling is tough. Without support, I have to manage my SP carefully, which may hinder me depending on how you look at it. I use magatamas that cater to rank V+ skills, and not VI+. Why? Well, skills like crimson cross at rank V take 67 SP, while Rank VII takes 108. That is absurd. Rank VI spirit blast and thunder blast cost less than that. Before you comment and say "duh", the ranks are different, it's the principle that counts. At max level, crimson cross cut rank VII has a max SF of 329 while a max thunder beast rank VI has 361. At less SP and more damage, what it the point of using that move? I would much rather use a rank V version of the skill since it still gets the job done (meaning I use normal skills for individual monsters) at a much less SP cost. Making these skills cost less SP makes the game have a less of that "Pay to win" feel. Although spears get that fancy WDS....
Ougi are a lot stronger than most non-Ougi skills, but CCC is a bad example in this case (ignoring that it is a combo skill and hence unaffected by CDR) and I'm obligated to point that out. You have to take into account that CCC does way more damage than Thunder Beast in a concentrated area, making it a lot better against single targets, especially those with smaller hitboxes. SF values are a very inaccurate measurement of actual damage output, since each hit (i.e. causes a damage number to appear) takes a multiplier of the base SF and deals it as damage. Compare Sunlight Strike and Arrow Rain for an extreme example.
I feel the problem lies with the strength of Ougi in this case. I wouldn't attribute the irrelevancy of rank 7 skills to SP cost, since having enough Mnd and Max SP largely negates the SP costs of everything but Wands. Whether or not SP costs are a balance issue status build-wise is debatable.

[Annette]

It's hilarious that someone who has actively contributed to the decline of the Onigiri population by repeatedly taking advantage of a small handful of generous players for their own selfish gains is now posting their concerns about Onigiri's declining population. You reap what you sow.

My thoughts on improving Onigiri with a minimal amount of work... because let's face it; drastic changes are not going to happen.

Skill balancing. Increasing damage values on some skills and reducing the SP costs on others while possibly adjusting durability costs would go a long way to making a much, much more enjoyable playing experience for a majority of weapons. Spear is all about Water Dragon Spear and Ice Blossom; the English wiki doesn't even have the other skills filled out to any meaningful degree because nobody cares about them. Wands? Ice Bolt/Frost Glaive all day every day. Swords should be renamed to "Ougis." It seems like every weapon has one or two overpowered skills and maybe one or two decent skills to fall back on when your murder button is on cooldown. Bow seems to be the only balanced weapon choice in this regard as almost everything that isn't a kick is pretty useful. Exorcist Arrow, White/Rainbow Peacock, [Poison] Rapid Shot, Icicle Arrow/Storm, Lightning [Flash] Shot, Aqua Needle... these are all viable skills in one sense or another. Even Cursed Arrow was a key component in my ability to take down a few bosses while leveling. I'm not expecting perfect balance but some semblance of an attempt at making a majority of skills at least viable would be nice.

Better experience curve. A common sentiment expressed during the early portion of the beta was that any heavy grinding present in a game should not happen until the end-game. This lead to our experience rate being doubled... which still wasn't enough so they added an additional experience boost for new characters. Considering the game throws a brick wall at you in story progression until you're level 60, experience rates should be adjusted so that you can hit that level with minimal grinding. Something is very, very wrong when you hit Kaga at level 30 and spend your next 30 or 40 levels living in Secluded Forest. Leave the higher levels untouched.

Improve the Point Exchange shop. Add more items for us to trade in for points(such as Prayer Crystals and Potions) and more options to spend points on(Smelting Reset Buttons and Magatama Slot Aids please.) Adjusting a few currently existing values/prices would be nice as well; even if I were to trade in everything I own, which includes all the freebies while leveling and some rewards from Nyankoro Pon, I could not afford to buy a single Gacha Ticket with points.

Adjust minimum prices. A vast majority of items collected are essentially worthless because nobody is going to pay the absurd minimum prices for them despite said items possibly having legitimate and desired uses. I don't think there's any need to go into much more detail on this one.

[Lynneth]

It's hilarious that someone who has actively contributed to the decline of the Onigiri population by repeatedly taking advantage of a small handful of generous players for their own selfish gains is now posting their concerns about Onigiri's declining population. You reap what you sow.

My thoughts on improving Onigiri with a minimal amount of work... because let's face it; drastic changes are not going to happen.

Skill balancing. Increasing damage values on some skills and reducing the SP costs on others while possibly adjusting durability costs would go a long way to making a much, much more enjoyable playing experience for a majority of weapons. Spear is all about Water Dragon Spear and Ice Blossom; the English wiki doesn't even have the other skills filled out to any meaningful degree because nobody cares about them. Wands? Ice Bolt/Frost Glaive all day every day. Swords should be renamed to "Ougis." It seems like every weapon has one or two overpowered skills and maybe one or two decent skills to fall back on when your murder button is on cooldown. Bow seems to be the only balanced weapon choice in this regard as almost everything that isn't a kick is pretty useful. Exorcist Arrow, White/Rainbow Peacock, [Poison] Rapid Shot, Icicle Arrow/Storm, Lightning [Flash] Shot, Aqua Needle... these are all viable skills in one sense or another. Even Cursed Arrow was a key component in my ability to take down a few bosses while leveling. I'm not expecting perfect balance but some semblance of an attempt at making a majority of skills at least viable would be nice.

Better experience curve. A common sentiment expressed during the early portion of the beta was that any heavy grinding present in a game should not happen until the end-game. This lead to our experience rate being doubled... which still wasn't enough so they added an additional experience boost for new characters. Considering the game throws a brick wall at you in story progression until you're level 60, experience rates should be adjusted so that you can hit that level with minimal grinding. Something is very, very wrong when you hit Kaga at level 30 and spend your next 30 or 40 levels living in Secluded Forest. Leave the higher levels untouched.

Improve the Point Exchange shop. Add more items for us to trade in for points(such as Prayer Crystals and Potions) and more options to spend points on(Smelting Reset Buttons and Magatama Slot Aids please.) Adjusting a few currently existing values/prices would be nice as well; even if I were to trade in everything I own, which includes all the freebies while leveling and some rewards from Nyankoro Pon, I could not afford to buy a single Gacha Ticket with points.

Adjust minimum prices. A vast majority of items collected are essentially worthless because nobody is going to pay the absurd minimum prices for them despite said items possibly having legitimate and desired uses. I don't think there's any need to go into much more detail on this one.

Agree with this.

Please rebalance skills, from SP consumption and the effectiveness, since I play Wand/Staff/Spears. Sword and Odachi just a little for fun.

Also, I pointed that for all the highest level player out there with highest attack available weapon, @devs can they get 'Extreme' difficulty mode with all enemies are much harder to kill to satisfy their masochist side? xD