Question & Answer Thread

[Rebecca]

direct damage magatamas are more for people that use multiple types of weapons and that can for this reason not easily stack affinity for each weapontype they are using

Noob got trapped.

you only need so and so much damage to onehit an enemy, after that all additional damage is wasted. a single defensive magatama on the other hand can make your life alot easier, it has nothing to do with imitating to be a tank, its about giving the player a room for error without being a spear user

please someone other than me help shed light on this matter

4. USE 1000 DEF MAGATAMA.
No. Defense is flat, and will do almost nothing towards damage that comes in large bursts as opposed to smaller ticks.

The mechanics of the defense magatama also really does make it alot less useful than you think.

And just to enlighten you even more. Field test I just did: default 391 defense I take 551 damage from hell momiji well mob. Adding mercury ore magatama brining my defense to 2967, i'm taking 359 damage. So, approximately 8x defense decrease the damage you take by 30%, from a single mob, at the opportunity cost of a damage magatama that help you kill the mob more efficient

[Argentum]

direct damage magatamas are more for people that use multiple types of weapons and that can for this reason not easily stack affinity for each weapontype they are using

Noob got trapped.

you only need so and so much damage to onehit an enemy, after that all additional damage is wasted. a single defensive magatama on the other hand can make your life alot easier, it has nothing to do with imitating to be a tank, its about giving the player a room for error without being a spear user

please someone other than me help shed light on this matter

4. USE 1000 DEF MAGATAMA.
No. Defense is flat, and will do almost nothing towards damage that comes in large bursts as opposed to smaller ticks.

The mechanics of the defense magatama also really does make it alot less useful than you think.

since you decided to not do an actual comment on either of the statements let me reform this into a question to fit the sheme of thread and to give you a reason to be actually helpful:

a) why would using a damage magatama instead of affinity magatamas be a bad idea when you are using multiple weapon types (a,2 because i see this argument comming: why do you think using multiple weapon types is a direct disadvantage
b) what do you think is wrong with the statement that any extra damage is obsolete when you exceed the maximum health of your opponent with a single attack anyways?
c) why do you think taking less damage is useless?

i hope you do not mind that i formulated some of those into extremes, because your post reads like you seem to think in extremes anyways


edit: appearently you actually DID post something useful in a later edit, that still doesnt change anything from the statement that you say taking 30% less damage is useless which is obviously not true because i allready wrote "when you one hit the enemy anyways" which obviously makes you not require that additional damage magatama

[Rebecca]

a) why would using a damage magatama instead of affinity magatamas be a bad idea when you are using multiple weapon types (a,2 because i see this argument comming: why do you think using multiple weapon types is a direct disadvantage

Game mechanic. Having multiple weapon types that require different stat to give them affinity is equivalent to having no damage in any weapon. This is especially noticeable when you reached seki.

b) what do you think is wrong with the statement that any extra damage is obsolete when you exceed the maximum health of your opponent with a single attack anyways?

Cause I'd rather overkill a mob, than giving them a chance to survive and kill me? And, if C$ does their job I will be updated with mobs that eventually don't allow me to 1 hit?

c) why do you think taking less damage is useless?

Taking damage is not useless, but its much worse than not taking damage at all

Edit: and no. The opportunity cost that I have to trade in was for +22 crit with +10 crit force

[Argentum]

a) i believe i gave you enough examples of weapon types that utilizes the same base stat that are commonly used by players simply because every weapon has its own speciality (for example: while oodachi is medium speed and high area damage the katana will still outperform it when it comes to speed and single target damage)

b) if you have enough damage to one hit your enemys, they wont HAVE the opporturnity to counterattack you. no one says you have to cut the damage close to the point where you risk the enemy still being alive and even with new content you can just switch the magatama around to fit the need of more damage.

c) avoiding to take damage is always better then mitigating it but it has no relation to the issue because both are achieved in different ways and avoiding damage by killing fast isnt part of the equotion simply because it was ruled out in this szenario during point b) ( which is not unreal considering the current metagame )

edit:

additionally, if you cannot onehit your enemy you would actually need to recalculate the whole thing over again because it means LESS damage may even be MORE useful depending on how much % of enemy health is taken by a single attack (for example: if you are only able to drop enemy health by 99% in a single attack you can drop almost 50% of your dmg output and still be just as effective as before)

i really hope that CS adjusts the new content in this way because it will make building characters much more interesting because you have more options to achieve your goal effectively (currently its just aiming for onehitting a whole room of enemys at once)

[Rebecca]

a) i believe i gave you enough examples of weapon types that utilizes the same base stat that are commonly used by players simply because every weapon has its own speciality (for example: while oodachi is medium speed and high area damage the katana will still outperform it when it comes to speed and single target damage)

b) if you have enough damage to one hit your enemys, they wont HAVE the opporturnity to counterattack you. no one says you have to cut the damage close to the point where you risk the enemy still being alive and even with new content you can just switch the magatama around to fit the need of more damage.

c) avoiding to take damage is always better then mitigating it but it has relation to the issue because both are achieved in different ways and avoiding damage by killing fast isnt part of the equotion simply because it was ruled out in this szenario ( which is not unreal considering the current metagame )

edit:

additionally, if you cannot onehit your enemy you would actually need to recalculate the whole thing over again because it means LESS damage may even be MORE useful depending on how much % of enemy health is taken by a single attack (for example: if you are only able to drop enemy health by 99% in a single attack you can drop almost 50% of your dmg output and still be just as effective as before)

i really hope that CS adjusts the new content in this way because it will make building characters much more interesting because you have more options to achieve your goal effectively (currently its just aiming for onehitting a whole room of enemys at once)

[SupremeTentacle]

Here is my insight in this matter.

1. It does not matter that weapons use the same base. You cannot efficiently stack damage with multiple weapons until much later in the game. The chakra costs prevent general skill force magatama from being effective, and 90% of non-skill force magatama are complete and utter trash, defense magatama included.

Going back on Rebecca's example, of having 30% damage reduction: Because of the way the defense mechanism works, its actually really just 200 flat damage reduction as opposed to having 30% defense against all monsters. This ends with the result that, when you get crit for 8k by a rock, you get crit by like 200 less damage. BIG FUCKING DEAL! This is completely and utterly useless, and you should not add defensive maga.

Based on what you have stated, in terms of using alternative magatama, I might as well equip 4 kanmon magatama and do secluded forest, because I still one hit kill everything but the boss with a skill. But this makes runs longer, and less efficient for everything other than ryou, and basically is stupid. I might as well go clear a different area with the same equips instead of that.

2. Instead of bothering with damage evasion or mitigation, you might as well just grab a chian and outsustain the enemy instead. I don't see any sort of correctness in your idea of equipping defensive magatama. Go add max hp ornamentations instead =__=

3. If you can't one hit the monsters, something's wrong with you.

We have extremely nerfed monsters, and jp players can easily one hit their version of the monsters anyways.

[Argentum]

Here is my insight in this matter.

1. It does not matter that weapons use the same base. You cannot efficiently stack damage with multiple weapons until much later in the game. The chakra costs prevent general skill force magatama from being effective, and 90% of non-skill force magatama are complete and utter trash, defense magatama included.

Going back on Rebecca's example, of having 30% damage reduction: Because of the way the defense mechanism works, its actually really just 200 flat damage reduction as opposed to having 30% defense against all monsters. This ends with the result that, when you get crit for 8k by a rock, you get crit by like 200 less damage. BIG FUCKING DEAL! This is completely and utterly useless, and you should not add defensive maga.

Based on what you have stated, in terms of using alternative magatama, I might as well equip 4 kanmon magatama and do secluded forest, because I still one hit kill everything but the boss with a skill. But this makes runs longer, and less efficient for everything other than ryou, and basically is stupid. I might as well go clear a different area with the same equips instead of that.

2. Instead of bothering with damage evasion or mitigation, you might as well just grab a chian and outsustain the enemy instead. I don't see any sort of correctness in your idea of equipping defensive magatama. Go add max hp ornamentations instead =__=

3. If you can't one hit the monsters, something's wrong with you.

We have extremely nerfed monsters, and jp players can easily one hit their version of the monsters anyways.

allright, thats a post one can work with.

3. thats why i say there is no need to stack more damage once you onehit monsters and the edited comment was on the assumption that rebecca is right on the assumption that it may not be possible to onehit future enemys. i fail to see an issue with this statement since you actually strenghened mine with what you wrote there.

2. adding defense is adding effective health, hp ornamentations may be better for this depending on the values. adding hp is making heals less effective compared to the incomming damage while reducing incomming damage makes heals more effective. however, since i am not so far in the endgame that i would have seen representative values for endgame stats i will not argue with you on this and accept the statement as it is. if you have a defense-dmgreduction chart i would appreciate it if you could link it to me.

on a sidenote: there is also a magatama that prevents you from being critically hit, this one is also a defensive magatama and it can be useful when you are able to survive a normal attack but not a critical hit (although, one could use resolute to work around onehits when you think they may be a real danger to you)

1. i agree that there is a lack of low cost skill damage magatamas for multiple weapon types at this point in time. this may change later on. however, in the early to mid game (aka up to ~ lvl 40 or 50) you can use elemental magatamas to fill that void somewhat. this, of course, requires you to use weapons with skills that have correct damage type which is a pain in the ass to do but not impossible (especially when you only include specific skills only up to rank III because many skills change their element on higher ranks (for example: voidslash -> lightning void slash)) on higher levels with more chakra available you can use tai-kun magatamas and possible others (if existent) for skillforce, too.
one does need to keep in mind that achieving damage output high enough to onehit monsters in this content is not especially hard even without skillforce magatamas

[Rebecca]

Question for you then, why would you need defense if you're sure you 1 hit them anyways.

There's no point building damage, cause you 1 hit them. There's no point building defense, cause you 1 hit them. There's no point building hp, cause you 1 hit them....

OMG KANMON BEST MAGATAMA EVA

On a more serious note, things like Chian or pop star, heals based on the amount damage shown, not on the amount of damage the mob can handle. Pop star heals me 5% of the crit damage i dealt, so even if I overkill something with 100k crit damage, I get healed back 5k hp. There, one reason to keep building damage.

[Argentum]

Question for you then, why would you need defense if you're sure you 1 hit them anyways.

There's no point building damage, cause you 1 hit them. There's no point building defense, cause you 1 hit them. There's no point building hp, cause you 1 hit them....

OMG KANMON BEST MAGATAMA EVA

On a more serious note, things like Chian or pop star, heals based on the amount damage shown, not on the amount of damage the mob can handle. Pop star heals me 5% of the crit damage i dealt, so even if I overkill something with 100k crit damage, I get healed back 5k hp. There, one reason to keep building damage.

by your logic you are at full health at all times so there is no reason to recieve heal by critical lifeleech at all.
so yes, kanmon best magatama eva.

considering that popstar is on a whole different equipment slot (although limited in time) the argument is kind of far fetched, chian is a whole different story and is your way to survive once you made sure you are not onehitted by building up enough effective health to not be onehitted.

basically the chian magatama is one step further then what the discussion is about ;D

[Rebecca]

No, that was your logic, not mine.

Anyways, this has gone on long enough. Back to the original poster of the question. What I suggest is specialize in 1 weapon, learn it, build focusing on it, and then swap out your affinity magatama one by one.

Of course you can listen to this one idiot babbling on about how important defense is, and how unimportant more damage is. Its your choice