Onigiri's Sustainability - An Analysis of Playerbase Decline

[Lynneth]

The overall of MAPS visibility need to get a HUGE overhaul. They need to pinpoint clearly where we should go, the waypoint and obstruction.. BOTH IN THE SMALL MAPS AND LARGER MAPS!

The way maps visibility now.. it's not useful at all.. the way point are way too small and sometimes I can get lost in dungeon easily due to no information whatsoever.

Fortunately, I usually party with others so, they usually become my guide light.

[SupremeTentacle]

Speaking of interesting features for player base. I was thinking of a new feature: Dungeon Maps



-Much like the aramitama you guys do. its a similar concept I thought about. Except no repeated runs. You guys played those pirate games with treasure maps and all. And that the map expires after treasure successfully hauled? Similar to this. After slaying mobs in regular dungeons in hell mode. You guys acquire a map. Map to an unknown place not existing in ingame world easily


-Acquiring the map. You reach the coordinates using the quest arrow mark. Make a party. Then travel to that place. Once you're inside the dungeon. Similar aramitama style. Hellish mobs with tough levels and stats, and chests en route with plentiful rewards besides ryou and xp. But the mobs should be challenging of course. Boss battles as always.Some other stuff should be added like solving puzzles to unlock hidden doors and other things etc.


-After you kill the boss in the very last room. You reach a treasure room. Once you acquire everything and are out. The map fades away. Then you go fight mobs at regular dungeons again to acquire another map to another location.

-The map acquisition should be like a lucky draw. Random maps to random locations unknown. Also I thought about island maps. to unknown islands with random field mobs and dungeons.

-The rewards should be like exclusive to each dungeon you get map of. Exclusive weapon and magatama recipes etc.


Surely would love a feedback. Thought a lot on this one

Its a good one.

No negative comments, really.

[Firon]

Speaking of interesting features for player base. I was thinking of a new feature: Dungeon Maps



-Much like the aramitama you guys do. its a similar concept I thought about. Except no repeated runs. You guys played those pirate games with treasure maps and all. And that the map expires after treasure successfully hauled? Similar to this. After slaying mobs in regular dungeons in hell mode. You guys acquire a map. Map to an unknown place not existing in ingame world easily


-Acquiring the map. You reach the coordinates using the quest arrow mark. Make a party. Then travel to that place. Once you're inside the dungeon. Similar aramitama style. Hellish mobs with tough levels and stats, and chests en route with plentiful rewards besides ryou and xp. But the mobs should be challenging of course. Boss battles as always.Some other stuff should be added like solving puzzles to unlock hidden doors and other things etc.


-After you kill the boss in the very last room. You reach a treasure room. Once you acquire everything and are out. The map fades away. Then you go fight mobs at regular dungeons again to acquire another map to another location.

-The map acquisition should be like a lucky draw. Random maps to random locations unknown. Also I thought about island maps. to unknown islands with random field mobs and dungeons.

-The rewards should be like exclusive to each dungeon you get map of. Exclusive weapon and magatama recipes etc.


Surely would love a feedback. Thought a lot on this one :)

Yep, good idea and would like to see it in game. The only downside I'm thinking of is that it would be a lot of work to create.

Now to be a hypocrite -.-"
I think it would be good to have something at later levels where you can do something for a higher chance of a reward instead of having to go back to a low level dungeon and farm it for a few days. Well, something like aramitama maybe with set rewards with achievements (but not guaranteed to get specifically what you were looking for). World bosses are good but the magatama are almost always things I don't want making farming not worthwhile. I'd rather have something where you do a really hard run and have a chance at any weapon class rank 4+ sf magatama or something (so a 1/8 chance of getting the right class).

I think partners should be able to do stuff other than attacking like luring if you're in danger or healing, etc. Basically what players can do as I think this was the intention, but tbh, unless they become very useful, I won't ever really use them (except sometimes to block projectiles)

-edit: bad english >.<

[PoorBowman]

Just make a wall of text. I know I've been reading every wall and so has Rhythm.

Very well then. I shall try to address what I have to say in an orderly manner as possible.

First off,

This was solo hell, not 5 man hell. Monsters are significantly weaker than on 5-man hell. I'm not saying Wands are unviable, just this is a bad example.

Hi, I'm hitting values in the near 300~400ks with my wand in 5 man level 90+ hells, hitting about 75~100k with my staff skills on same difficulties (meaning i can do up to 180k + on weaker mobs like the one in grand forest as you mentioned) and I can extend heal for 3k + and/or cure for 5k while invigorating 53/tic. It's perfectly viable, and that being said, going back to my point, they're practically non-existent due to the fact that no one bothers speccing them. It's there, but you don't see them ever.

You totally skipped my statement right below the video link. I was trying to show how awesome a magic user can be, and I don't have a video with your awesome and kick ass character in it to show with. And yes, it is kind of bad example because it doesn't show end game character build, more like middle half way or something.

Gee, I wonder why I didn't see people speccing them. Maybe the player in that video left the game before speccing 'em? Perhaps it have something to do with what this thread is all about? Playerbase decline, that sort of thing?

Okay, so here's the personal attacks huh. Did you really compare me with someone who was doing 5k damage per hit in a ONE man hell without a single AOE skill? When i was level 50, i was dealing high 5 digits than that and I cleared that dungeon within HALF the time that he did. The dungeon mob density is vastly smaller in a solo hell, and at this point, a single frost glaive VI/VII -> single inferno V was enough to clear all the early rooms, yet I see him taking like 4 times longer per grouped room. That's not even CLOSE to what a magic user can yield.

My mistake, your character is actually SUPER awesome and SUPER kick ass. And I apologize for that. What was it again that we're talking about in this thread? Oh yes, 'playerbase' decline.

Chian Magatama and Support Role

The fault should be mine, for I did not elaborate it further. When I said that chian magatama is incredibly useful, I meant the magatama itself is useful. You can see other player replying to this thread saying they don't care if the magatama is removed or adjusted, why? Because they are high level players and there are other better magatama to be used. There are literature, clear and serene, strawberry, mango, pineapple, and many more.

The limitations are only four slot of magatama equip and the chakra level. No one will wear chian magatama forever. I myself no longer wearing this magatama and replace it with a better one. And with the new content of Ginza/Edo coming in, no doubt even better magatamas will surfaced. To be honest, I don't care if this chian magatama is shoved right inside of Kaguya's backside for screwing with the magatama ornament's slot a little bit too much.

With that being said, why do I insist that this magatama should not be removed or adjusted? Chian magatama have the level requirement of 30 and above to wear. Meaning anyone BELOW level 30 won't able to wear it. Even if they managed to get to appropriate level to wear it, they still have to work for it. Hence:

I actually disagree, Orange Glass Marble is actually pretty common nowadays after the dungeon master event. On top of that farming one takes like 1-5 hours depending on your luck (unfortunately it took me about 8 hours, but lets assume I'm an outlier). Even if you'e to lazy to farm, there are plenty of people who farm it anyway and sell them for 50-60c if you're desperate. At this point, I don't know who DOESN'T have a Chian that "carries" people.

This user argued this magatama can be easily farmed if the player really put the effort. Which is true. But without the magatama, then those 1-5-8 hours of farming, 50-60c trading, will ceased to exist. Now tell me again HOW is that conducive to your attempts of improving the decline of Onigiri Online playerbase?

This is not about me, heck I'm not even using it anymore. I'm a bow weapon user, even though now I dish out critical damage thanks to my literature maga and dex stats, I'm not supposed to get hit in the first place anyway. But the maga helped me a lot when I'm in tight spot back when I was in Kyoto. No, this is for the new players. I've seen this maga works, and its working perfectly. They survive a hit, and supporters would have less work load. Please don't compare yourself with your super awesome super kick ass character, these low level players doesn't have that much HP or SP compared to you.

But most importantly, this maga can serves as a drive, a sense of purpose. We grind together to get the materials, and it was fun. You may say its EASY for you with your super awesome super kick ass character to farm it, but not to those wanted to wear it during their first level of 30. Besides, maga have chakra limitation with only 4 slots for equip. No one is going use it forever, there are going to be better maga as they progressed further into the game. The only reason why you are seeing all of your friends equipping it right now, is what bring us to this thread in the first place. They probably the only people that's left, and Edo/Ginza have yet to opened.

When I said that this maga is incredibly useful, I really meant it. Its good for the new players, and its working great. Don't do this to them. You all have already enjoyed its benefit.

I'm simply saying that the values should be nerfed, not that it should be removed. First off, it gives more the user way more than just "sustainability." It lets them heal EVERYTHING without concern to the damage they're taking. So by saying it reduces the support's workload, are you saying that the only thing a support needs to do is to invigorate someone and that's all? That's pretty much all I do at this point when I'm playing support. I'm only required to heal people who don't use chian, but those who use chian, i can just meditate V and forget. Tell me how that's even considered "Supporting" when 90% the people in the game can do the same thing given the right skills simply because they have 50 mind specced for no reason.

When you wrote like this, its something that I dreaded about. This here, is your PERSONAL problem. You give me those big numbers from you super awesome super kick ass character, and yet you make like this maga appeared to rob you of your role as a supporter, simply because you can't get a chance to heal your party member. Let me ask you, honestly, is this really a problem? And meditate v is an ougi skill no less. Can a new player level below 20 do what you do? Will adjusting the chian maga values make them happier healing, and healing some more , through Kumaso Village all the way to Kyoto? Is chian maga deprived them the ability to level up their healing skill, despite being able to level it up by just spamming it in the town? If chian maga value is nerfed, will it encouraged them to go for the path of full support?

And please don't put words in my mouth, I'm not saying that the only thing a support needs to do is invigorate someone and that's all. I'm saying that whatever the support can give, then we accept. HP heal, SP buff, speed buff, whatever that kept us from eating the dirt. You are exaggerating how chian maga deprived you of your healing expertise, while knowing full well that this game have yet another content to be released in the future. Who know in the new content, maybe even chian maga won't cut it. It is JUST a level 30 maga. There are bound to be better ones. And you can't wear all of those magas you owned at the same time anyway.

That is why I'm even against the maga to be tweaked its values, or as you put it, nerfed. Some of you, me included, have enjoyed this maga, use it up all from level 30 to level 50+++, and now you don't want everyone else to use it, the way we did. I'm telling you again, please don't do this to them.

I don't understand what you mean when you ask about "how is that considered 'Supporting' when 90% the people in the game can do the same thing given the right skills simply because they have 50 mind specced for no reason". I'm pretty sure that you make it like you were insulted by the mediocre video clip that I'd provided, for that I apologize, but now you make it sound like any character with half-assed mind spec can be comparable to your super awesome super kickass pure character. It almost like all that fancy big numbers that you gave me just puffed into a smoke, and apparently chian maga is the source of it.

Maybe you should actually listen to the voice audio, read our own wall of texts and look at the purpose of our threads, before you start spewing stuff that we've been going over for the past 7 pages...

I did, but then you wrote this:

If we're trying to address changes and problems to the game here, we can't only just take in one side, and completely ignore the other. Sure Chian is AMAZING for your DPS classes, but for those who actually love and want to support, it's the biggest turn off in the game. It makes them feel useless, and that eventually leads to a good amount of player decline simply because their designated roles are being taken over by a single item that renders them absolutely useless.

You exaggerating too much and making my statement like it was one sided. You don't need to rephrase what you really meant, it didn't changed the meaning anyway. Others even used it to strengthen their argument, but yours take my attention the most. When you said 'them', it's obviously only you or your group. Your only argument here is about how you felt that people that use chian maga doesn't need your heal skill and your roles are being bulldozed. But healers can do more than just heal, and you yourself have proven it, with those big numbers of you super awesome super kick ass character equipped with ougi skill of meditate v. Or was that a lie? At this point I can't really tell. But what I can tell is that I myself don't really care if that maga gone for good, but that's because I personally don't need it. Just like any other high level players. So unless you really don't care about new players getting in, then go on and convince everyone how awful this maga can be, and have it nerfed or remove. I will not argue about it anymore, and I shall held my peace.

Which bring us to this,

Skill card placement

I fear that this issue would get some of you into a paradox that some of you seems cannot escape.

The problem is that it would become TOO easy to obtain the skills you want if you were able to select the exact placement. Perhaps a middle ground where you could have an item lock a specific skill so it can't be overwritten?

You see, the middle ground that you talking about, is what I was trying to tell. I was not talking about OBTAINING, EXTRACTING, or EVOLVING skills. I was talking about the card placement, where you placing the card into your weapon skill slot.

To avoid misunderstanding about what I'm talking about and prevent total boredom with this simple guide for character skill system, I shall compressed it as much as I can and will refer to it as [para A] from now on. All that inside of it, is the game mechanic that I'm fully agree.
---------------------------
Obtaining Skill Card:-
There are 3 ways to obtain skill card. Nyankoropon, lucky boxes, and skill extraction. Nyankoropon is this lucky draw that you roll for prizes, and the only way to obtain ougi skill card. Lucky boxes is rare random drop from mobs that is not 9 level below you. Skill extraction is from Momotarou's function.
Skill Evolution:-
All skills can be evolved to certain higher ranks based on Momotarou's affection level, but not all weapon have evolvable skills. You can only check whether or not your weapon have evolvable skills through Momotarou skill evolution's window. Skill that is placed from skill card cannot be evolved.
Skill Extraction
To extract skill, you skill level must be reach certain level. The skill level increase depends on your usage. Not necessarily be maxed out for extraction. Higher ranked skills require higher Momotarou affection. Ougi skill cards cannot be extracted out.
------------------------

As you can see in [para A], its NOT easy to obtain a skill card of your choice. No all weapon would have the skills that you want, and lucky boxes doesn't always give out skill cards, and the same goes for Nyankoropon. People easily misunderstood that when I mentioned about skill card placement, they will always respond that will make the skill card too easy to be obtained or easily accessible. That is a misconception. Its never easy. All those things in [para A], you need to grind for it. And Nyankoropon is a lucky draw. Removing the random card placement WON'T make it any easier at all.

If removing the random card placement won't make it easier, then what the point? My aim here is to make it much more REWARDING, for all of those hard work. I have no issue with grinding to get those skill cards, and totally agree with its mechanic. Ougi skill card should be exclusive, and skill card need to be level up to be evolved or extracted. Except the end result of it, is not rewarding at all. More like a cruel joke, mocking your effort.

I simply don't see how random placement is a problem - if we were allowed to do it without randomness, people would be spamming the same skills anyways, they'd just be more accessible. I don't see how this affects the power of magic users when magic actually has better skill cards than some others, as all three of the rank 7 skills that are available to them through nyankoro are extremely useful. I'd literally be the same, except weapons would be more easily accessible. Let's be fair here, there isn't a game in which really good weapons are not generated based on some sort of chance - in every single manner. In addition to rolling, there's always some other variation in the base stats, or stats that you find the weapon with as well. Its simply just a typical implementation of an mmo system.

Of course its not a problem, not for me, and obviously not to you too. We can just go to byakku cavern or secluded forest, and spam those skills on those mobs, level it up and extract or evolved it when it reached enough level. Easy smeasy. It only take an average of 5.5 cards to get all 3 skill slots to be filled with our desired skill, yes?

Perhaps 'problem' is too strong of a word. Unnecessary hardship, arduous, thankless task, unrewarding, something along that line. I never said the random card placement affects the power of magic users, what I meant was their growth. You said yourself that magic user have better skill card than others, except many of the new players might no use it in fear of accidentally replacing another skills. And also, I didn't even questioning about the randomness of getting a really good weapon. And if that relates to the randomness of getting good skill cards, that wasn't what I was talking about either. I was talking about the randomness of putting the skill card on the weapon, that happened after the randomness of getting good weapon and after the randomness of getting a good skill cards. Unnecessary randomness? I don't think we on the same page here...

Why is it that you think spears can simply have one skill on one weapon, and then be good to go? When I was a lower level, I literally farmed four spears with the skill so I could use it on rotation. It's not really that difficult to do, it just requires a little bit of patience. Besides, no one said you have to have the skills on the same weapon. There is a four weapon swap system for a reason in the first place. Besides - many games have healers effectively as leechers anyways, as they output minimal damage. Its just more blatantly obvious here.

Why are you questioning my thought, and the proceeded to explain the method that is similar to my thought? That is what I did to my bows too. Perhaps the mistake here is on my part for not elaborate more. What I meant by spears can simply have one skill on one weapon and good to go, is just as you said. One skill on one spear, and rotate by weapon selection. It seem that you yourself didn't use the skill card that you got early in the game either to fill in the all skill slots with your desired skills.

Magic user can't farm as good as other weapon user, or did I misunderstood about this? So early in the game, because of the limitation of skills type that they can try out, most of them either abandon the path of magic or they just abandon the game. I don't want to be one telling them new players about [para A], which they probably just shrugged off and be ok with it, but my punchline would be that an average of 5.5 cards are needed for them to fill in all 3 skill slots with their desired skills if they are lucky, which is like telling them its meat grinder with bad ending.

Which it shouldn't be like that, especially early in the game. So yes, perhaps a middle ground. Like smelting, repairing, and ornamentation. If smelting have smelt reset, repairing have repair fairy, ornament have maga slot aid, then why not for the skill card placement? Something similar to repair fairy, give them a few early in the game when they met momotarou, dropped from lucky boxes, let them have fun, but they still have to do [para A], at least they'll grind happy. Maybe healers can't escape from being a leecher ever, but they'll grind for [para A] nonetheless.

We are talking about the declining of playerbase right? One of the source of increasing the playerbase would be recruiting more new players, you know.

But that doesn't mean I'm disregarding about the existing players. I'm sure that the new area of Edo/Ginza will open up more content to make the high level players happy.

Suggestions and Farewell

Truthfully, most of the suggestions that have been raised are all good. So I won't make a redundant suggestions. I'll just comment what have already suggested.

I totally agree with the pet system. Technically the system is already there, but not fully utilized. Kamaboko, Mini and Big Ghost, all of these accessories can be made into pet. In fact, if fully adapted, it will good for CS themselves. What comes to my mind, the pet fairy system from Pirate King Online. They have similar system like Onigiri's accessory. With status buff and time limit. The only difference is that in Pirate King Online, those pet can be extended their limited time buff, using pet food. So yes, CS should let us extend our accessory buff effect using similar item, instead just making those accessories as dead weights in our inventory after the 30 day limit ran out. With this, they wouldn't need to code in a totally new feature, it will be suffice updating the existing one, which a bunch of new pets of course.

I also agree with the the new idea of concept for the dungeons. Preferably a refreshing one. Random generated dungeons however is not good. It will increase the server's load capacity and player's computer storage drive. I seen it in other mmo such as Phantasy Online Star. The lagging issue will only increase exponentially.

Most of the problem faced by the existing player's are indeed the game lack of content. I hope that in their next update for the new place will more lively than Echigo.

To be honest, I'm actually quitting this game. But not because I hated this game, instead I enjoyed it very much. I like doing the dungeons, and progressed through the story line. However, I am at my wits end. I even go down to Onigashima and work my way back up to Echigo scouring for dungeons that I have might missed, dungeon modes that I have not yet cleared, and get them all in SS ranks. Just for my own self-satisfaction. That was even before the lucky boxes reward for every 10 dungeons/quest cleared thing. I wanted to clear Aramitama's Junctures, but by the time I reached the snow white town of Echigo, well... That is as far as I can go.

I wish and hope you guys enjoyed this game as I did.

[Lynneth]

@PoorBowman

Actually your argument :

"
Random generated dungeons however is not good. It will increase the server's load capacity and player's computer storage drive. I seen it in other mmo such as Phantasy Online Star. The lagging issue will only increase exponentially.

"

Is not related at all to lagging issue. Even without random generated dungeons, I can feel lagging very badly, even with very good connection and high-end computer (latest computer). I tried it with my laptop, office's laptop, my PC desktop and my friend's PC desktop.

Especially Grotto Dungeon, which is the 'room of the death' can lag like hell. The solution, is how about optimize their code and their graphic properties? I don't experience the same lagging issues with Phantasy Star Online at all, even with all the players play and so many effects/animation and all the monsters/boss skills.

--

The problem might be from their server's load capacity, their output burst bandwith or their storage drive speed ( do they still use 5400 rpm one for server? if yes, no wonder ). But I doubt about that, so I just feel that their base code and graphic dll library optimization which makes the lagging.

This is the only game which crash once in some hours with my desktop (onigiri.exe error), and most of the time the error are related to kglib.dll which should be connected to their graphical properties, this case becomes more often with lower end computer and laptop. Sometimes Onigiri can hang up without notice/reason even at my AFK party.

[Vrenna]

@PoorBowman

Actually your argument :

"
Random generated dungeons however is not good. It will increase the server's load capacity and player's computer storage drive. I seen it in other mmo such as Phantasy Online Star. The lagging issue will only increase exponentially.

"

Is not related at all to lagging issue. Even without random generated dungeons, I can feel lagging very badly, even with very good connection and high-end computer (latest computer). I tried it with my laptop, office's laptop, my PC desktop and my friend's PC desktop.

Especially Grotto Dungeon, which is the 'room of the death' can lag like hell. The solution, is how about optimize their code and their graphic properties? I don't experience the same lagging issues with Phantasy Star Online at all, even with all the players play and so many effects/animation and all the monsters/boss skills.

--

The problem might be from their server's load capacity, their output burst bandwith or their storage drive speed ( do they still use 5400 rpm one for server? if yes, no wonder ). But I doubt about that, so I just feel that their base code and graphic dll library optimization which makes the lagging.

This is the only game which crash once in some hours with my desktop (onigiri.exe error), and most of the time the error are related to kglib.dll which should be connected to their graphical properties, this case becomes more often with lower end computer and laptop. Sometimes Onigiri can hang up without notice/reason even at my AFK party.

True thing. I play Tera Online which is pretty much the same thing as Onigiri (probably more complex?) and... it responds faster (if not instantly) most of the time in combat (no matter what I'm doing, include blocking in there) if compared to Onigiri (which is so laggy that sometimes I just give up on blocking).

[SupremeTentacle]

Skill card placement

I fear that this issue would get some of you into a paradox that some of you seems cannot escape.

The problem is that it would become TOO easy to obtain the skills you want if you were able to select the exact placement. Perhaps a middle ground where you could have an item lock a specific skill so it can't be overwritten?

You see, the middle ground that you talking about, is what I was trying to tell. I was not talking about OBTAINING, EXTRACTING, or EVOLVING skills. I was talking about the card placement, where you placing the card into your weapon skill slot.

To avoid misunderstanding about what I'm talking about and prevent total boredom with this simple guide for character skill system, I shall compressed it as much as I can and will refer to it as [para A] from now on. All that inside of it, is the game mechanic that I'm fully agree.
---------------------------
Obtaining Skill Card:-
There are 3 ways to obtain skill card. Nyankoropon, lucky boxes, and skill extraction. Nyankoropon is this lucky draw that you roll for prizes, and the only way to obtain ougi skill card. Lucky boxes is rare random drop from mobs that is not 9 level below you. Skill extraction is from Momotarou's function.
Skill Evolution:-
All skills can be evolved to certain higher ranks based on Momotarou's affection level, but not all weapon have evolvable skills. You can only check whether or not your weapon have evolvable skills through Momotarou skill evolution's window. Skill that is placed from skill card cannot be evolved.
Skill Extraction
To extract skill, you skill level must be reach certain level. The skill level increase depends on your usage. Not necessarily be maxed out for extraction. Higher ranked skills require higher Momotarou affection. Ougi skill cards cannot be extracted out.
------------------------

As you can see in [para A], its NOT easy to obtain a skill card of your choice. No all weapon would have the skills that you want, and lucky boxes doesn't always give out skill cards, and the same goes for Nyankoropon. People easily misunderstood that when I mentioned about skill card placement, they will always respond that will make the skill card too easy to be obtained or easily accessible. That is a misconception. Its never easy. All those things in [para A], you need to grind for it. And Nyankoropon is a lucky draw. Removing the random card placement WON'T make it any easier at all.

If removing the random card placement won't make it easier, then what the point? My aim here is to make it much more REWARDING, for all of those hard work. I have no issue with grinding to get those skill cards, and totally agree with its mechanic. Ougi skill card should be exclusive, and skill card need to be level up to be evolved or extracted. Except the end result of it, is not rewarding at all. More like a cruel joke, mocking your effort.

I simply don't see how random placement is a problem - if we were allowed to do it without randomness, people would be spamming the same skills anyways, they'd just be more accessible. I don't see how this affects the power of magic users when magic actually has better skill cards than some others, as all three of the rank 7 skills that are available to them through nyankoro are extremely useful. I'd literally be the same, except weapons would be more easily accessible. Let's be fair here, there isn't a game in which really good weapons are not generated based on some sort of chance - in every single manner. In addition to rolling, there's always some other variation in the base stats, or stats that you find the weapon with as well. Its simply just a typical implementation of an mmo system.

Of course its not a problem, not for me, and obviously not to you too. We can just go to byakku cavern or secluded forest, and spam those skills on those mobs, level it up and extract or evolved it when it reached enough level. Easy smeasy. It only take an average of 5.5 cards to get all 3 skill slots to be filled with our desired skill, yes?

Perhaps 'problem' is too strong of a word. Unnecessary hardship, arduous, thankless task, unrewarding, something along that line. I never said the random card placement affects the power of magic users, what I meant was their growth. You said yourself that magic user have better skill card than others, except many of the new players might no use it in fear of accidentally replacing another skills.

But my point was that, early on, before you can really farm decent skills, you don't need multiple good skills on a single weapon. One good skill on each of your four is more than enough. I considered the skills to be an inclusive part of a good weapon.

And also, I didn't even questioning about the randomness of getting a really good weapon. And if that relates to the randomness of getting good skill cards, that wasn't what I was talking about either. I was talking about the randomness of putting the skill card on the weapon, that happened after the randomness of getting good weapon and after the randomness of getting a good skill cards. Unnecessary randomness? I don't think we on the same page here...

This isn't even unnecessary, its to make up for the fact that this game has, relatively, a much, much, much lower chance of destruction. Lots of games give you no way to compensate in the case that something fails, and often even completely destroy your weapon, or troll you by giving your weapon negative stats or the like.

Why is it that you think spears can simply have one skill on one weapon, and then be good to go? When I was a lower level, I literally farmed four spears with the skill so I could use it on rotation. It's not really that difficult to do, it just requires a little bit of patience. Besides, no one said you have to have the skills on the same weapon. There is a four weapon swap system for a reason in the first place. Besides - many games have healers effectively as leechers anyways, as they output minimal damage. Its just more blatantly obvious here.

Why are you questioning my thought, and the proceeded to explain the method that is similar to my thought?

Because you are making it sound like its mandatory to have multiple good skills on a weapon in the early stages of the game.

That is what I did to my bows too. Perhaps the mistake here is on my part for not elaborate more. What I meant by spears can simply have one skill on one weapon and good to go, is just as you said. One skill on one spear, and rotate by weapon selection. It seem that you yourself didn't use the skill card that you got early in the game either to fill in the all skill slots with your desired skills.

Because there's no point. Farming weapons with decent skills is not difficult in the slightest, unless you're farming for something insanely rare like exorcist arrow.

Magic user can't farm as good as other weapon user, or did I misunderstood about this?

If you're going about grinding a skill at a super low level, its the wrong method. Just id more weapons, and then smelt it up if the rank is too low. Its not very difficult in this aspect.

So early in the game, because of the limitation of skills type that they can try out, most of them either abandon the path of magic or they just abandon the game.

Technically, they're able to try out all their skills, just lower ranked versions. They should be able to cast higher ranked versions while still in the Yamataikoku area without going 100% dry. This is also where they start getting some skills to really low costs.

I don't want to be one telling them new players about [para A], which they probably just shrugged off and be ok with it, but my punchline would be that an average of 5.5 cards are needed for them to fill in all 3 skill slots with their desired skills if they are lucky, which is like telling them its meat grinder with bad ending.

Which it shouldn't be like that, especially early in the game. So yes, perhaps a middle ground. Like smelting, repairing, and ornamentation. If smelting have smelt reset, repairing have repair fairy, ornament have maga slot aid, then why not for the skill card placement? Something similar to repair fairy, give them a few early in the game when they met momotarou, dropped from lucky boxes, let them have fun, but they still have to do [para A], at least they'll grind happy. Maybe healers can't escape from being a leecher ever, but they'll grind for [para A] nonetheless.

Many of the good healers are not leechers, but rather, secondary support. Its not necessary to go primary support in this game, ever.

We are talking about the declining of playerbase right? One of the source of increasing the playerbase would be recruiting more new players, you know.

But that doesn't mean I'm disregarding about the existing players. I'm sure that the new area of Edo/Ginza will open up more content to make the high level players happy.



Suggestions and Farewell

Truthfully, most of the suggestions that have been raised are all good. So I won't make a redundant suggestions. I'll just comment what have already suggested.

I totally agree with the pet system. Technically the system is already there, but not fully utilized. Kamaboko, Mini and Big Ghost, all of these accessories can be made into pet. In fact, if fully adapted, it will good for CS themselves. What comes to my mind, the pet fairy system from Pirate King Online. They have similar system like Onigiri's accessory. With status buff and time limit. The only difference is that in Pirate King Online, those pet can be extended their limited time buff, using pet food. So yes, CS should let us extend our accessory buff effect using similar item, instead just making those accessories as dead weights in our inventory after the 30 day limit ran out. With this, they wouldn't need to code in a totally new feature, it will be suffice updating the existing one, which a bunch of new pets of course.

While I've never heard of Pirate King Online, I do agree that pets with some sort of status buff are good.

I also agree with the the new idea of concept for the dungeons. Preferably a refreshing one. Random generated dungeons however is not good. It will increase the server's load capacity and player's computer storage drive. I seen it in other mmo such as Phantasy Online Star. The lagging issue will only increase exponentially.

Most of the problem faced by the existing player's are indeed the game lack of content. I hope that in their next update for the new place will more lively than Echigo.

To be honest, I'm actually quitting this game. But not because I hated this game, instead I enjoyed it very much. I like doing the dungeons, and progressed through the story line. However, I am at my wits end. I even go down to Onigashima and work my way back up to Echigo scouring for dungeons that I have might missed, dungeon modes that I have not yet cleared, and get them all in SS ranks. Just for my own self-satisfaction. That was even before the lucky boxes reward for every 10 dungeons/quest cleared thing. I wanted to clear Aramitama's Junctures, but by the time I reached the snow white town of Echigo, well... That is as far as I can go.

I wish and hope you guys enjoyed this game as I did.

Bye

[-x-SongNhi-x-]

@Bowman It was a good read, but it really did put a distasteful flavour in my mouth with all the condescending tone.

[Lynneth]

I forgot something, can we have something like mount to get onto?

So that we can travel faster between areas? Also this mount can be treated as pet/support? Well, kind like partner but we

can mount on it. Disable mount use inside dungeon though . And enable it on Raid dungeon which has very large maps xD.

@Ryxa

Sorry about my statement before, I was just emotional, because I suffered a lot when playing as Wand/Staffs build which was one of my worst experience.

I was playing with lots of my friends, My role was as support/ a bit attack, and all my initial friends quit, leaving me alone in this game.

This resulted in me adding WIS and playing as mage/wand, which very suffering because u know what? High SP consumption, very low SP recovery, I need to stop once in a while after two skills to drink SP pots, and the mobs aren't cleared yet.

I played staff too but the damage is so minimal that I quit playing attack staff. I got frustated and almost quit, while becoming leecher/support leecher was a better option (I dislike being leecher anyway).
Fortunately, I find some new friends who can play with me until around lv.60, and some helpful yet unknown buddies help me reach until endgame content.

I still remember the frustation clearing Byakkou Cavern in 25 minutes in my lv.30 while my Spear player at lv.25 can do Byakkou Cavern in only 10 minutes.

Actually I want to reset to spear, but the time invested and weapons I collected and skills I upgraded were invaluable experience.
I begin to enjoy play as wand starting from lv.70, below that.. meh

[Firon]

I forgot something, can we have something like mount to get onto?

Something else I've seen is something consumable (in this game, they'd probably make it sake) that greatly increases movement speed but cancels when you attack or are attacked.
Well, this would be more so that they wouldn't have to create a whole set of new animations, etc.

Also, aoe for all weps (covered in the clip). I completely agree with this. I have to admit that I avoided ts for the most part for some 70 lvls because of the lack of aoe in normal attacks. I can just imagine the disparity between wds X and any ts skill when it's available.