Annette wrote:Hercules wrote:Obviously with the current attack vs defense mechanics in the PVE aspect is broken. But who says those same mechanics have to transfer into PVP, simply change the defense vs attack mechanics for pvp, and thats one big step towards realistical PVP. I don't get why people make a big deal about thatlol it's a simple fix.
It's not anywhere near that simple. The difference in power between a typical player who either does not spend any money or spends a few dollars now and then compared to one who has purchased thousands, even tens of thousands of OC is ridiculously one-sided. If you balance for the weaker players the pay to win crowd will consistently one-shot everyone else. If you balance for the stronger players nobody else will be able to make a dent in anyone's health. The middle ground would effectively be what we see in PvE now.
Damage would somehow need to be reduced in PvP, that's for sure. But it's not as simple as applying a global x% damage reduction to everyone. The most balanced option would be normalization with available customization but I don't see that happening because it does not provide any additional incentive to spend money.
You just described 95% of the MMORPGs out there, but yeah, this is also a big problem too.
@Hercules
Let me refer to a quote that i just posted 2 pages ago.
If you've played enough MMORPGs that focus more on PVE than PVP, you know that no matter how good or committed the company is, it's nearly impossible to get a balanced/skill-cap orientated PVP without having PVE break it first. Let's say a non-MOBA type PVP was to be implemented in this game. Firstly, updates in PVE will always bring in stronger advancements to either jobs or skills, and thus it will require the devs to balance it upon PVP. Eventually, some skills will provide so much utility that people will begin complaining about how X skill or X class is absurdly OP. Not to mention, there's gonna be birth to an unneeded section of PVP elitists who will begin to treat the community and forums as if it's their own blog. Sooner or later, PVP will devolve into a part of the game where class will simply outdo skill regardless of how strong, or how hard you can read your opponent... and by then, it's probably already too late to fix and/or balance the game out. Go see Dragon nest or TERA PVP and you'll understand exactly what I'm talking about.
Put bluntly, if even the companies who've created big games can't implement a solid PVP system that doesn't get completely lobsided over time due to PVE, I highly doubt that C$ can do it either. Granted, there are VERY few exceptions to this kind of scenarios, but that usually happens because the game is more revolved around PVP mechanics than it is PVE (primary example being of such like Elsword or Grand Chase). I honestly think making the MOBA idea was a very smart approach to the unnecessary demand for PVP. It shows that they are aware that a "PVP" system in this kind of game simply won't work due to the game mechanics. I won't be making any calls here until I actually experience that pandemonium myself, but it's certainly much better than adding a crappy and imbalanced PVP system into a game like this.
tl;dr If you've actually played enough MMOs to see all kinds of PVPs go wrong, you would know that PVP isn't a matter of balancing damage.
What breaks PVP at high level is utility, not damage- and i highly doubt there is any way to balance utility with the kind of system this game is using. For one, almost every class except two lacks extreme mobility. Second, some have block, some don't. That in and of itself is enough to completely lobside the balance of PVP in this game IF there ever was to be one. And to reiterate, in case you might bring in some "its more about skill than class" argument.. might I requote that "Sooner or later, PVP will devolve into a part of the game where class will simply outdo skill regardless of how strong, or how hard you can read your opponent... and by then, it's probably already too late to fix and/or balance the game out" as the history of PVE-based MMOs have shown.
Go refer to the underlined part above in my quote. I don't want this game to become like that, and I HIGHLY doubt that, with the kind of targetting, playstyle, and engine that this game is using, PVP will hardly ever be balanced at any point in the game. It's not a matter of adjusting simple numbers. Implement PVP or not, it's not gonna make this game strive any more than it already is; it's just a mere excuse to wanting to show off your own e-peen in a game that's still absurdly primitive.
