Is this an Action MMORPG or an Action MMOSG ?

[Nizuto]

I would like to know this from the community.

IF THIS IS AN ACTION MMORPG:

- Why are players only looking to get powerleveled? Why do high level people do this? Has gaming become this casual?
- Why does everybody need a carry for everything? Can't nobody make parties with people of the same level as they are and work together?
- Why is everybody slacking in the Temporal Rift all day chatting about cringy stuff?

The only people that "play" the game are the rich cash shoppers who don't accept anyone in their classy parties if you don't have 4 ougis. Or you can be a cringy weeaboo, that can get you an invitation to their club!

Which brings me again to the question: Are people really this casual nowadays?

From what I see, in order to get high level, players must either:
1. Spam real money for OC
2. Get powerleveled by those real money OC spammers
3. Solo their way as a class that can do it properly (e.g. Spear)

IF THIS IS AN ACTION MMOSG*:

I got nothing to question about.

Discuss.

*MMOSG= Massive Multiplayer Online Social Game

Possible answers:
- "Let people enjoy the game the way they want!"
I would if you guys can stop corrupting the gaming industry with your casual gaming. Seems like true gamers are a minority now. Back in my old days, challenge = fun.

- "This is an anime-styled game. Ofc people are gonna be weeaboos"
There's a slight difference between roleplaying and being cringy or annoying.

[Sephiroth]

I don't know how long you've been playing this game or if you already know this, but the leech/carry system (higher level player dragging lower leveled players through dungeons) Is caused in most part by the fact that the EXP rates are nerfed compared to what the real EXP rates should be (I believe we have 1/10th of what Japan gets? Though recently some adjustments were made that made a slight improvement, correct me if I'm wrong) Though in point of fact a group of similarly leveled players could tear through dungeons if they were properly equipped/tried. It's just very -very- hard to find anyone willing to do this, unless you're doing main storyline quests. I'm told in some higher level areas you see people working together more often to grind the sewers.

As for the reason higher level players participate in leeching, they get more EXP for killing all of the mobs in a full hell party.

[SupremeTentacle]

@ Sephiroth

We have 1/5

Leeching still happens in JP.

@ Nizuto

The end game content of this game is challenging regardless of how much you're willing to pay. I've also noticed lately that they've rebalanced classes so some of the classes that wer previously unviable without ougi are at least somewhat playable. For example, axe's static axe can finally hit more than 2 targets per strike. (In fact, it hits like 7 now)

[Nizuto]

I don't know how long you've been playing this game or if you already know this, but the leech/carry system (higher level player dragging lower leveled players through dungeons) Is caused in most part by the fact that the EXP rates are nerfed compared to what the real EXP rates should be (I believe we have 1/10th of what Japan gets? Though recently some adjustments were made that made a slight improvement, correct me if I'm wrong) Though in point of fact a group of similarly leveled players could tear through dungeons if they were properly equipped/tried.

I've been playing on my main for ~1 month and made level 84 focusing on soloing without spending any real money on anything , and without any consumables to boost my exp (just accessories and events). For the first characters that I made, I played ~1 week in total to get used to the game and the classes (and also to determine what weapons I wanna use)

This is something I see in many games (especially anime-styled ones) : some people carry and some leech.
While this may seem harmless, it can damage the community's overall mentality:
- Are you low level: you must be carried by a high level person
- Are you high level: you must carry the low levels otherwise you're a bad/evil/rude person

The only counter-argument that has a point would be:
"Late game players need more people in that level zone so they can advance. Thus powerleveling is a solution so that everybody wins"
Yes, indeed it's a solution...but not an effective one. Here's why:

I met a person that was level 77 at that time. This person was a spear user based on vit and mnd, however she did not have any magatamas that where needed for that level (Literature, Gemini etc.) and due to rushing thru the game, she discarded most stuff that she thought she wouldn't need. Apparently she was rushed thru the story up to edo and rushed thru levels without any late game plans. Without spending OC or farming a long time for those magatamas, that person is doomed.

So I'm not sure how useful this carrying is...not to mention, the time you spend on the game becomes shorter if you're rushed thru levels. And that's because it's a PvE game. Once you get max level, you don't have too much stuff to do.

It's just very -very- hard to find anyone willing to do this, unless you're doing main storyline quests.

It is indeed hard. The reasons are the ones I stated both in the first post and the lines above. Oh and I saw someone lvl ~20 already in Sekigahara...ofc carried by some high level player. So now even main story quests are getting carried.

I'm told in some higher level areas you see people working together more often to grind the sewers.

I recently got to the edo zone soloing everything (as a spear user, yes...that's because the mage class is too slow to solo with at early levels and I don't wanna leech. I'm restating once I get to a level that I find it as "high". Like you said before, it's hard to find people of your level that wanna do dungeons as it should be).
The mobs are ~100+ and (correct me if I'm wrong) max level is 115. So yea, people work together at those dungeons because the level cap doesn't allow them to be carried.

As for the reason higher level players participate in leeching, they get more EXP for killing all of the mobs in a full hell party.

This is why "AFK parties" are for. Most people who can solo dungeons will resort to this method without powerleveling lazy leechers.

@ Nizuto

The end game content of this game is challenging regardless of how much you're willing to pay. I've also noticed lately that they've rebalanced classes so some of the classes that wer previously unviable without ougi are at least somewhat playable. For example, axe's static axe can finally hit more than 2 targets per strike. (In fact, it hits like 7 now)

I heard many people saying "You're a spear user, you don't know how hard it is as [insert another class]". Something I couldn't really argue too much. Instead my only reply would the the same one: find people of your level and do dungeons with them. I'd usually offer examples like: 1 main carry, 2 supports, 2 people that guard the supports or help the carry clear faster. Basically something to make that person feel "useful" for the team

If what you say is true, then it eliminates the point of those people's class difference argument. Basically they have 1 less reason to leech.

[Sephiroth]

I agree with what you're saying since these have been problems this game has faced since open beta, I was basically just posting to describe the overall reasoning behind what you're seeing since it seemed like you were asking. But I'd say you're observations are pretty much correct, it's what a lot of people on the forums have been talking about for a long time.

ETA: @Tentacle

Good to know it still happens in JP. Doesn't surprise me at all honestly, though some people I've spoken to make JP out like it's some kind of paradise where leech/carry doesn't exist.

[SupremeTentacle]

Well, it *used* to be true.

Spear users had it easier than every other class because they had the best AOE spells. Because the game scales awkwardly, these spells had overpowered single target damage at lower levels. This rendered them capable of grinding the lower level dungeons without any difficulty, as those are focused on mobbing and require AOE damage.

Even with the recent balance patches, they have, quite literally, the easiest time clearing dungeons assuming that players do not have any ougi. The only weapon that even comes close to the the amount of AOE that can be dished out is wand, which as significant difficulty because their skills not only have a much smaller, specific AOE pattern, but also require literally three times the amount of SP. Note that this takes into account the fact that spears have a decent attack speed.

Looking at it from such an aspect, Spear used to be unbalanced at lower levels.

However, at higher levels, spear honestly began to fall off. Their skills did not do enough damage, or consumed too much dura. It was ladden with drawbacks, so in that sense, spear was not actually overpowered once everyone else had scaled into the game.

But even back in the day, when the classes were balanced in such a manner, there was no reason to leech for the sole reason that they used a different weapon type. Every weapon has its way of doing things, even if they were considered weaker overall.

People are simply lazy, and will leech because dungeons are clearable by one individual (+ a support). That will not change regardless of how much you balance the classes.

[Yvona]

Good point. One reason I didn't go Spear was because I was told, it will scale off in the sewers. What weapons are still good?

People keep telling me it's things like bows, axes, odachis, etc.

For some reason, in Pipe 3, I see the sword/twin sword carries the most. All they do is spam Ougi Thunder Beast and Lunge Step to quickly clear the waves, so I am a bit curious if sword/twin sword is what spear used to be.

[SupremeTentacle]

Sword/TS was always strong. Due to the movement speed nerfs inn the EN server, they had the most mobility, as well as the ability to do damage without sacrificing any of it.

Every weapon is still viable. Spear does fall off, but do the right things, and you can still boost your damage high enough to clear with one attack. (requires significant gearing)

[Momiji]

Typically, the leech carry is more of a bad habit.

Low level players expect any high level player to carry them (some don't, which is good)

High leveled players don't typically stick to a group, as you might easily find lv 90+s hanging out in rift occasionally, but yes, i agree that the rift is quite the scary place.

That argument about spears, its more like something that suits a player's style of gameplay and preference, as i had soloed my way to Kusatsu with Odachi and Sword, and with a similarly leveled party on edo release, i could tell you it all comes down to the player's individuality.

[Tekato]

This song pretty much summarizes the leech system in this game viewtopic.php?f=10&t=5221