Onigiri's Sustainability - An Analysis of Playerbase Decline

[Ryxa]

-Achievement Features-
Create an achievement list for each player, like successful attempt on +100 weapon, clearing xxx dungeon in under xx minutes.
Clearing dungeon using no potions
Clearing specific dungeon without using skills

This is essentially the basis of the "Free Swag" system, though I agree it can definitely be expanded on and a VISIBLE list would be nice

-Adding difficulties-.
Create new difficulties : Easy, Expert, Extreme

We already threw this idea at WEDGE once wayyyyy back in Kaga. Hasn't happened sadly.

Kind of 'Aura' for support player and 'Command Aura' for DPS or 'Taunt' aura for tanker, so they don't need to cast. Well.. might be misused .

I like this idea. On the other hand, support class fixes have been mentioned so many time I'm pretty sure most people are tired of hearing them. They were one of the first things we put on our detailed list and it doesn't need to be expanded on much farthur.

-Raid Boss Party-
-Make a 7-10 and 15-20 size of party, in order to make this successful, please fix the targeting system...
-Make a raid boss dungeon specific for this kind of party, so that it's NOT only grind grind grind and grinding.

I like the idea of an actual raid, which is another idea we threw around in the discussion we had. As for that second point about grinding... explain?

Make Steal/Special attack accessible to all weapons
Make Buffs 'Way of' and 'Fierce God Focus' accessible to all weapons

I think it's nice that each weapon has their own Skill Card 1 skill. I don't think that should really be changed. "Way of the..." skills are very bad and from our estimates work based off weapon affinity... therefore max affinity = useless "Way of the..." skills. As for FGF, you can literally equip any sword or axe, cast it, then swap and still have the buff. This isn't really an issue.

[SupremeTentacle]

Random idea for skills - what about ones that charge to increase their output?

[Firon]

I don't see why percent values on your gear is a bad idea. I think its fine, but the problem is that fated is literally available to everyone. I think that, instead of this, we should just make it available on less types of magatama.

dont get me wrong, im not against percent values on GEAR, im against percent values on ORNAMENTS. having to equip a specific weapon or magatama for massive health boosts is a lot different from equiping a damage maga and getting some free HP multiplers just cause they happen to exist on the cheapest crit enchant that you naturally want to have for your chian (oh that synergy, i could cry.)

Sorry, this was bad phrasing on my part. I meant to address ornamentation as well. I do agree that not everyone should have easily compatible access to hp multipliers though. Hence, my suggestion was to restrict it to certain types of magatama, so that it would not be universally compatible.

I was thinking something along these lines but instead, limiting the number of each ornament you can get. I think this is too late to change, though, as a lot of ppl have spent a lot of time ornamenting.

Ah, let's see, chian XD
Well, it's like a mandatory magatama for high lvl dungeons. I don't think there's anything really wrong with that but if you want support to have a better role, you're going to need something similar to chian, right? Like a combo healing skill and something that ticks like energy ball but heals like sanctuary. I think the problem of support disliking chian comes from no new skills becoming available after ppl get chian so the skills they've been using for maybe something like 50-60 levels have become redundant.

-Achievement Features-
Create an achievement list for each player, like successful attempt on +100 weapon, clearing xxx dungeon in under xx minutes.
Clearing dungeon using no potions
Clearing specific dungeon without using skills

Timed attack runs would be nice, I sometimes do speed runs of grind spots for fun but there's no best time to compare it to :/
Your last suggestion would be hard though given that I'm not even sure CS realizes which skills ppl use from each class to clear dungeons and what about all the time spent skill lvling ;~;

yeah, another difficulty would be good. I'm thinking of limiting hp for each area, eg. max hp v odin is 1k or something.
I went and did an odin fight a while ago for the first time since kyoto (not really any reason to do it again before)
and well, the fight was just me using ougi until it died, through its attacks. I remember this was actually pretty hard first time and needed strategy and timing :/

Random idea for skills - what about ones that charge to increase their output?

Hard to use unless you're in a dungeon with a pt and someone's luring. I remember back when I used to use the skill it was hard enough to find the timing to shoot cursed arrow (I'm assuming you mean much longer than skills like dust storm blast and sunlight strike)
hmm, unsure what I think about it so I'll say both sides.
Well, for lower lvl dungeons the fight might just someone finding the timing to ohko the boss and for higher lvl dungeons, it could be good because in that Satan clip with the ridiculous damage, it still takes so long. Some world bosses also take a while to take down with ougi.

-on this note, bosses with large hp usually just become a matter of repeating your strategy until it goes down. I liked what they did in Sakurajima depths and Sado mines (not sure if this is a spoiler but I'm guessing most ppl know what I mean, in terms of boss fights)

Curing still has it's places (such as death cool down -.-).

your point of view seems strange.

Ha ha, yep, just realised this.

people build AROUND chian magatamas instead of building around SUPPORTERS.

I played beta and came back later a few weeks after official release so maybe I missed something, but did ppl create their builds around supporters before chian was created? Because chian hasn't been around forever and I suspect this wasn't the case. If anything it seems like before, people were unable to create builds without support, but they were still trying to.

[baruko]

wow lots of ideas here, but i doubt any thing will happen soon considering company update priorities.
I am assuming one or two good ideas in this thread takes about a week to code, and a week to test, two weeks to get approved but will take more time if it was not on their top priority update which is similar to where i work.

anyway back to topic, It is a turn off for me that there is no ryou/items trade available and no pvp, there is nothing to do after a certain level or have done all the quest. which is the reason i am moving to another game. I will come back till next update or a better update but who knows my friends in this game already quit .

[PoorBowman]

Haha, so my post there was from a selfish point of view?

Ok then, lets go to the analytical point of view. I can play that game too.

Chian magatama is one of the magatamas that is incredibly useful and great at what it does. Its true that it gives the wearer sustainability, reducing risk in executing skills that seems suicidal. BUT, it also reduce the support's work load. We already knew about the problem with the support sp consumption and the inability to effective heal someone in timely manner during the heat of battle, and with the less need for healing then the support can concentrate on other buff which of course would reduce the support's pressure. And yet you make a monologue of how you don't want to be anyone's 'sp b*tch', interesting choice of word, especially for turning good thing into a bad thing. What just happened to the problems of being a support? Did it just flew away and disappear? What is it again that you wanted to support us with?

You asked about fully devoted support players at the full end of the game, with max mind affinity that can heal constantly for values above low thousands, and actually deal damage with staff offensive skills. Ridiculous. That is like looking for a fully devoted bow man at the full end of the game, with max dex affinity that can deal high damage for values above low thousands, and can actually heal somebody with his flying kick skill. Again, what is it that you wanted to support us with? Damage or heal?

Just like Tekato said, staff isn't meant for clearing dungeons, wand maybe. But if you wanted to be a mage, or magic caster, why not seek this guy and asked him how his character of level 49 mage can clear Grand Forest dungeon at level 75 Hell Mode, solo within 9 minutes with SS rank.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iaeAg3r ... e=youtu.be

I'm fully aware of the true power of magic user.

I do not deny the magic user's problems, such as they can't grind like other weapon user in the early game.

Hence why I raise the issue about the skill card random placement thing long time ago, where I got ridiculed, so I held my peace. Yet here, some of you actually complained about other weapon user kept spamming skills like water dragon spear, ice blossom, poison rapid shot, ice glaive, thunderbeast, and whatnot, and wondering why. Skill card random placement, or more precisely the lack of player's ability to arrange his own skill slot, is what causing this.

I only started 'rearranging' my own skill slot when I've reached Kyoto at level 30, and capable of grinding extensively for skill extraction. And yet you couldn't comprehend why magic users are having a hard time, and instead blaming other weapon users' skill for being awesome, without realizing that it is best they could come up with. Go into a dungeon, grind to get a spear with water dragon spear skill, and you good to go. How can a new player that wishes to go for the path of magic, get heal and invigorate skills in their weapon without the skill card erasing one another? For without it, they won't be able to experimenting with the skills, or be an effective party member. And so they ended up being a leecher, or just straight on quitting this strange game.

I wanted to write more, but I'm starting to make a wall of text, and it might be too long winded to be read. But you think the issue about the whole skill system is insignificant one, then so be it. These thing have been complained alot and long time ago. CS literally took months after the launch of the official game before they finally put on those little icons for buff and character affliction, and improved the party management, despite being a basic feature in nowadays game. By the time they implemented all of those, my friend list have already 95% greyed out.

Sometime I wonder when exactly did you realize that playerbase is dangerously sinking? Is it when you found out the new players you are helping are not really that new because they apparently pretty familiar with the carry thing? Or maybe you are just like me, with a lot of greyed out spot in the friend list?

Because this thread is not its first.

[Ryxa]

Just like Tekato said, staff isn't meant for clearing dungeons, wand maybe. But if you wanted to be a mage, or magic caster, why not seek this guy and asked him how his character of level 49 mage can clear Grand Forest dungeon at level 75 Hell Mode, solo within 9 minutes with SS rank.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iaeAg3r ... e=youtu.be

This was solo hell, not 5 man hell. Monsters are significantly weaker than on 5-man hell. I'm not saying Wands are unviable, just this is a bad example.

Hence why I raise the issue about the skill card random placement thing long time ago, where I got ridiculed, so I held my peace. Yet here, some of you actually complained about other weapon user kept spamming skills like water dragon spear, ice blossom, poison rapid shot, ice glaive, thunderbeast, and whatnot, and wondering why. Skill card random placement, or more precisely the lack of player's ability to arrange his own skill slot, is what causing this.

I only started 'rearranging' my own skill slot when I've reached Kyoto at level 30, and capable of grinding extensively for skill extraction. And yet you couldn't comprehend why magic users are having a hard time, and instead blaming other weapon users' skill for being awesome, without realizing that it is best they could come up with. Go into a dungeon, grind to get a spear with water dragon spear skill, and you good to go. How can a new player that wishes to go for the path of magic, get heal and invigorate skills in their weapon without the skill card erasing one another? For without it, they won't be able to experimenting with the skills, or be an effective party member. And so they ended up being a leecher, or just straight on quitting this strange game.

The problem is that it would become TOO easy to obtain the skills you want if you were able to select the exact placement. Perhaps a middle ground where you could have an item lock a specific skill so it can't be overwritten?

I wanted to write more, but I'm starting to make a wall of text, and it might be too long winded to be read.

Just make a wall of text. I know I've been reading every wall and so has Rhythm.

Sometime I wonder when exactly did you realize that playerbase is dangerously sinking? Is it when you found out the new players you are helping are not really that new because they apparently pretty familiar with the carry thing? Or maybe you are just like me, with a lot of greyed out spot in the friend list?

We've known. We've been quietly poking at GMs with little suggestions here and there in whispers for a long time now.

[SupremeTentacle]

Haha, so my post there was from a selfish point of view?

Ok then, lets go to the analytical point of view. I can play that game too.

Chian magatama is one of the magatamas that is incredibly useful and great at what it does. Its true that it gives the wearer sustainability, reducing risk in executing skills that seems suicidal. BUT, it also reduce the support's work load. We already knew about the problem with the support sp consumption and the inability to effective heal someone in timely manner during the heat of battle, and with the less need for healing then the support can concentrate on other buff which of course would reduce the support's pressure. And yet you make a monologue of how you don't want to be anyone's 'sp b*tch', interesting choice of word, especially for turning good thing into a bad thing. What just happened to the problems of being a support? Did it just flew away and disappear? What is it again that you wanted to support us with?

You asked about fully devoted support players at the full end of the game, with max mind affinity that can heal constantly for values above low thousands, and actually deal damage with staff offensive skills. Ridiculous. That is like looking for a fully devoted bow man at the full end of the game, with max dex affinity that can deal high damage for values above low thousands, and can actually heal somebody with his flying kick skill. Again, what is it that you wanted to support us with? Damage or heal?

Just like Tekato said, staff isn't meant for clearing dungeons, wand maybe. But if you wanted to be a mage, or magic caster, why not seek this guy and asked him how his character of level 49 mage can clear Grand Forest dungeon at level 75 Hell Mode, solo within 9 minutes with SS rank.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iaeAg3r ... e=youtu.be

I'm fully aware of the true power of magic user.

I do not deny the magic user's problems, such as they can't grind like other weapon user in the early game.

Hence why I raise the issue about the skill card random placement thing long time ago, where I got ridiculed, so I held my peace. Yet here, some of you actually complained about other weapon user kept spamming skills like water dragon spear, ice blossom, poison rapid shot, ice glaive, thunderbeast, and whatnot, and wondering why. Skill card random placement, or more precisely the lack of player's ability to arrange his own skill slot, is what causing this.

I simply don't see how random placement is a problem - if we were allowed to do it without randomness, people would be spamming the same skills anyways, they'd just be more accessible. I don't see how this affects the power of magic users when magic actually has better skill cards than some others, as all three of the rank 7 skills that are available to them through nyankoro are extremely useful. I'd literally be the same, except weapons would be more easily accessible. Let's be fair here, there isn't a game in which really good weapons are not generated based on some sort of chance - in every single manner. In addition to rolling, there's always some other variation in the base stats, or stats that you find the weapon with as well. Its simply just a typical implementation of an mmo system.

I only started 'rearranging' my own skill slot when I've reached Kyoto at level 30, and capable of grinding extensively for skill extraction. And yet you couldn't comprehend why magic users are having a hard time, and instead blaming other weapon users' skill for being awesome, without realizing that it is best they could come up with. Go into a dungeon, grind to get a spear with water dragon spear skill, and you good to go. How can a new player that wishes to go for the path of magic, get heal and invigorate skills in their weapon without the skill card erasing one another? For without it, they won't be able to experimenting with the skills, or be an effective party member. And so they ended up being a leecher, or just straight on quitting this strange game.

Why is it that you think spears can simply have one skill on one weapon, and then be good to go? When I was a lower level, I literally farmed four spears with the skill so I could use it on rotation. It's not really that difficult to do, it just requires a little bit of patience. Besides, no one said you have to have the skills on the same weapon. There is a four weapon swap system for a reason in the first place. Besides - many games have healers effectively as leechers anyways, as they output minimal damage. Its just more blatantly obvious here.

I wanted to write more, but I'm starting to make a wall of text, and it might be too long winded to be read. But you think the issue about the whole skill system is insignificant one, then so be it. These thing have been complained alot and long time ago. CS literally took months after the launch of the official game before they finally put on those little icons for buff and character affliction, and improved the party management, despite being a basic feature in nowadays game. By the time they implemented all of those, my friend list have already 95% greyed out.

Sometime I wonder when exactly did you realize that playerbase is dangerously sinking? Is it when you found out the new players you are helping are not really that new because they apparently pretty familiar with the carry thing? Or maybe you are just like me, with a lot of greyed out spot in the friend list?

Because this thread is not its first.


Its something we've been talking about since like a patch and a half ago I think, but we only decided to post it recently.

[Compa-IF]

Pets are nice, but I don't really see how they would contribute to gameplay elements, other than "my doge is cute<3."

Could you please elaborate on your idea?

Also, ther was a yukata exclusively from events, and there are some ryou-based costumes. Although the yakata wasn't very pretty, I think some of the ryou costumes look decent - in fact, I'm currently using a mix of a ryou and nyankoro costume myself.

I just want more and more, it make this game interesting
Atleast we can make a guild and cosplay together

[Moriya Suwako]

Haha, so my post there was from a selfish point of view?

Ok then, lets go to the analytical point of view. I can play that game too.

I think you misinterpreted the definition of "selfish" here. By that, I meant that it vastly benefits one aspect of the game, but at the same time actually harms another part of the game. Undoubtedly, chian DOES stop healers from being useful at all.

Chian magatama is one of the magatamas that is incredibly useful and great at what it does. Its true that it gives the wearer sustainability, reducing risk in executing skills that seems suicidal. BUT, it also reduce the support's work load. We already knew about the problem with the support sp consumption and the inability to effective heal someone in timely manner during the heat of battle, and with the less need for healing then the support can concentrate on other buff which of course would reduce the support's pressure. And yet you make a monologue of how you don't want to be anyone's 'sp b*tch', interesting choice of word, especially for turning good thing into a bad thing. What just happened to the problems of being a support? Did it just flew away and disappear? What is it again that you wanted to support us with?

Again, you're getting the wrong idea. I'm simply saying that the values should be nerfed, not that it should be removed. First off, it gives more the user way more than just "sustainability." It lets them heal EVERYTHING without concern to the damage they're taking. So by saying it reduces the support's workload, are you saying that the only thing a support needs to do is to invigorate someone and that's all? That's pretty much all I do at this point when I'm playing support. I'm only required to heal people who don't use chian, but those who use chian, i can just meditate V and forget. Tell me how that's even considered "Supporting" when 90% the people in the game can do the same thing given the right skills simply because they have 50 mind specced for no reason.

You asked about fully devoted support players at the full end of the game, with max mind affinity that can heal constantly for values above low thousands, and actually deal damage with staff offensive skills. Ridiculous. That is like looking for a fully devoted bow man at the full end of the game, with max dex affinity that can deal high damage for values above low thousands, and can actually heal somebody with his flying kick skill. Again, what is it that you wanted to support us with? Damage or heal?

Hi, I'm hitting values in the near 300~400ks with my wand in 5 man level 90+ hells, hitting about 75~100k with my staff skills on same difficulties (meaning i can do up to 180k + on weaker mobs like the one in grand forest as you mentioned) and I can extend heal for 3k + and/or cure for 5k while invigorating 53/tic. It's perfectly viable, and that being said, going back to my point, they're practically non-existent due to the fact that no one bothers speccing them. It's there, but you don't see them ever.

Just like Tekato said, staff isn't meant for clearing dungeons, wand maybe. But if you wanted to be a mage, or magic caster, why not seek this guy and asked him how his character of level 49 mage can clear Grand Forest dungeon at level 75 Hell Mode, solo within 9 minutes with SS rank.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iaeAg3r ... e=youtu.be

I'm fully aware of the true power of magic user.

Okay, so here's the personal attacks huh. Did you really compare me with someone who was doing 5k damage per hit in a ONE man hell without a single AOE skill? When i was level 50, i was dealing high 5 digits than that and I cleared that dungeon within HALF the time that he did. The dungeon mob density is vastly smaller in a solo hell, and at this point, a single frost glaive VI/VII -> single inferno V was enough to clear all the early rooms, yet I see him taking like 4 times longer per grouped room. That's not even CLOSE to what a magic user can yield.

I wanted to write more, but I'm starting to make a wall of text, and it might be too long winded to be read. But you think the issue about the whole skill system is insignificant one, then so be it. These thing have been complained alot and long time ago. CS literally took months after the launch of the official game before they finally put on those little icons for buff and character affliction, and improved the party management, despite being a basic feature in nowadays game. By the time they implemented all of those, my friend list have already 95% greyed out.

Then please post them. These forum posts aren't going anywhere, so I don't see why you're making this excuse.

Sometime I wonder when exactly did you realize that playerbase is dangerously sinking? Is it when you found out the new players you are helping are not really that new because they apparently pretty familiar with the carry thing? Or maybe you are just like me, with a lot of greyed out spot in the friend list?

Because this thread is not its first.

Maybe you should actually listen to the voice audio, read our own wall of texts and look at the purpose of our threads, before you start spewing stuff that we've been going over for the past 7 pages...

[Leobreaker322]

Speaking of interesting features for player base. I was thinking of a new feature: Dungeon Maps



-Much like the aramitama you guys do. its a similar concept I thought about. Except no repeated runs. You guys played those pirate games with treasure maps and all. And that the map expires after treasure successfully hauled? Similar to this. After slaying mobs in regular dungeons in hell mode. You guys acquire a map. Map to an unknown place not existing in ingame world easily


-Acquiring the map. You reach the coordinates using the quest arrow mark. Make a party. Then travel to that place. Once you're inside the dungeon. Similar aramitama style. Hellish mobs with tough levels and stats, and chests en route with plentiful rewards besides ryou and xp. But the mobs should be challenging of course. Boss battles as always.Some other stuff should be added like solving puzzles to unlock hidden doors and other things etc.


-After you kill the boss in the very last room. You reach a treasure room. Once you acquire everything and are out. The map fades away. Then you go fight mobs at regular dungeons again to acquire another map to another location.

-The map acquisition should be like a lucky draw. Random maps to random locations unknown. Also I thought about island maps. to unknown islands with random field mobs and dungeons.

-The rewards should be like exclusive to each dungeon you get map of. Exclusive weapon and magatama recipes etc.


Surely would love a feedback. Thought a lot on this one